David Lyon wrote:
Nick Coghlan:
I'd like to see Python 3+ be more suitable for full distributable
applications over 2.X and earlier.
Out of curiousity, have you tried experimenting with the zipfile
execution capabilities in 2.6/3.1? A major part of that was to make
multi-file Python applications nearly as easy to execute as single-file
scripts.
I haven't experimented with zipfiles very much. I think zip files are an
excelent answer to writting small applets that don't need to be formally
installed. But even then there are quite a few gotcha's that the developer
needs to be aware of such as missing/changed modules and other environment
differences if they intend to give these files to others.
I think what Ron meant was "a way for normal users to install
a python application". That capability doesn't exist in standard
python in a way that is compatable or similar to anything that
has happened in the "outside" world for the last decade.
I prefer to consider what the average 'naive' user might experience when it
comes to installing software and what the somewhat below average python
developer will expect when it comes to writing it. Make it doable for
those groups and then it becomes easy for the average computer user, and
average python developer.
Yes.. and finishing with your suggestions... we can
experiment.. play with all the undocumented and unobvious
features. And really, in a sense you are right. That is
all we can do.
It's not all we can do, it is a starting point to doing even more than we
have already done. :)
I don't expect a conclusive answer, but I think it would be very good for
both python users (programmers) and python language developers to have a
general overview of what the differing needs are from different user points
of view.
This is a moving target. I believe that it has changed over the years and
continues to change. So the question "How is python used?" needs to be
readdressed every few years.
At one time all python programs were treated as simple modules. Then
packages where added and it was considered good practice to write your
application as a package and put it in the python package directory. With
Windows 98, we of course could modify our Python installation in any way we
wanted. And that worked because we could get at everything and see how it
was all tied together. (Yes, we still can if we really want to. But should
we?) Python scripts were shared between python programmers and not very
often with non programmers. But things have changed quite a bit with the
boundaries of where python is used expanding to just about anyone with a
computer weather they know it or not.
So I thought an updated overview on the subject as well as some thoughts on
the future of where things are going might be both a useful and interesting
topic.
Some things (factors?) that come to mind:
Differences in program types:
modules, packages, scripts, applications, other?
Differences dues to intended user:
me, my associate, or someone I never met
Computer user skills:
skilled programmer, skilled application user, novice computer user.
Differences due to operating environments.
linix/unix variant, Windows, Mac, Web browser,
Smart phone or PDA, Other
Some of the questions might be.
What packaging formats are best for different combinations of the above?
Ok, I cheated and used one general question instead of a lot of more
specific questions. ;-) I'm sure the readers here can expand that out if
they care to.
For example; a python developer interested in extending python the
language, doesn't have the same need as a casual computer user. A casual
computer user shouldn't need to learn Python in order to install and use an
application written in Python.
Can I make my efforts in developing a (module, package, script, or
application) a lot easier if I keep certain things in mind? Are there any
best practices I should keep in mind if I intend to distribute my work?
Are there changes that can be made to python that can make things easier
for various combinations of the above?
Regards,
Ron Adam
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