On Fri, 28 Aug 2015 at 08:35 Yury Selivanov <yselivanov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Victor, > > On 2015-08-28 5:01 AM, Victor Stinner wrote: > > Hi, > > > > 2015-08-27 23:15 GMT+02:00 Yury Selivanov <yselivanov...@gmail.com>: > >> Recently, in an asyncio related issue [1], Guido said that new features > >> for asyncio have to wait till 3.6, since asyncio is no longer a > provisional > >> package. (...) > >> For example, there is an issue [2] to add starttls support to asyncio. > >> (...) > >> Aside from adding new APIs, we also have to improve debugging > >> capabilities. > >> (...) > > I would propose something more radical: remove asyncio from the stdlib. > > I too would enjoy more frequent release schedule of asyncio. > > Unfortunately, separating it from the standard library is something > that I don't think we can do so late in the 3.5 release candidates > process. > Ultimately it's Larry's call, but I don't see why we couldn't. If we were talking about something as low-level as the urllib package then I would agree, but beyond its own tests is there anything in the stdlib that depends on asyncio? -Brett > > > > > > PEP 411: "While it is considered an unlikely outcome, such packages > > *may even be removed* from the standard library without a deprecation > > period if the concerns regarding their API or maintenance prove > > well-founded." > > > > As an asyncio developer, I'm not sure that asyncio fits well into the > > Python stdlib. The release cycle of feature release is long (18 > > months? or more?), the release cycle for bugfix release is sometimes > > also too long (1 month at least). It's also frustrating to have subtle > > API differences between Python 3.3, 3.4 and 3.5. For example, > > asyncio.JoinableQueue was removed in Python 3.5, asyncio.Queue can > > *now* be used instead, but asyncio.JoinableQueue should be used on > > older Python version... It means that you have to write different code > > depending on your Python version to support all Python versions. > > > > I can give much more examples of missing asyncio features. Example: > > Windows proactor event loop doesn't support signals (CTRL+C) nor UDP. > > > > asyncio is moving so fast, that changes are not documented at all in > > Misc/NEWS or Doc/whatsnews/x.y.rst. I tried to document changes in my > > fork Trollius. See its changelog to have an idea how fast asyncio is > > still changing: > > http://trollius.readthedocs.org/changelog.html > > > > I don't know how users will react to the removal of asyncio from the > > stdlib ("asyncio is not trusted/supported by Python?"). > > That's another concern. > > > > > The idea is to install it using pip: "pip install asyncio". The major > > difference is that "pip install -U asyncio" allows to retrieve the > > latest asyncio version, independently of your Python version. Hum, I > > don't know if it works with Python 3.4 (which "asyncio" module is used > > in this case?). > > The one from the stdlib. > > > > > Developing asyncio only on Github would avoid the risk of having > > patches temporary only in Github or only in CPython. It avoids the > > need to synchronize the Git (Github) and Mercurial (CPython) > > repositories. > > > > > > Compare Python release dates with Twisted, Tornado and eventlet release > dates. > > > > Twisted releases: > > > > * 2015-01-30: 15.0.0 > > * 2015-04-13: 15.1.0 > > * 2015-05-19: 15.2.0 > > * 2015-08-04: 15.3.0 > > > > Tornado releases: > > > > * 2014-07-15: 4.0 > > * 2015-02-07: 4.1 > > * 2015-05-27: 4.2 > > * 2015-07-17: 4.2.1 > > > > eventlet releases: > > > > * 2015-02-25: 0.17.1 > > * 2015-04-03: 0.17.2 > > * 2015-04-09: 0.17.3 > > * 2015-05-08: 0.17.4 > > > > > These are very good stats. It shows that even mature async libraries > require frequent release cycles. > > Anyways, I vote for at least keeping asyncio provisional in 3.5.x. > > I'd be glad if we can consider to have more bugfix releases of 3.5 > (and 3.6), say every 3 months. > > > Yury > _______________________________________________ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/brett%40python.org >
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