On 2020-06-29 11:46 a.m., Giampaolo Rodola' wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 12:34 PM Nathaniel Smith <n...@pobox.com
<mailto:n...@pobox.com>> wrote:
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:31 AM Steve Holden <st...@holdenweb.com
<mailto:st...@holdenweb.com>> wrote:
> The commit message used, however, reveals implementation details
of the change which are irrelevant to the stated aim, which is
making the documentation clear and concise. Use of such language
is certainly regrettable, since it carries with it the implication
that the Python developer community has somehow been wilfully
sanctioning "relics of white supremacy" up until the change was made.
>
> There certainly is a place in tech for politics, as I have
argued many times, and I am sure nobody wishes to continue to use
language that might be offensive to readers. But I would suggest
that the politics can safely be omitted from commit messages,
since they can only properly be fully addressed in the
conversation about the PR in advance. The wording of the commit
message has the appearance (probably specious) of wanting to rub
former misdeeds in the face of a largely innocent community, and
that is the principal reason I found it distasteful and unnecessary.
I just re-read the commit message, and I think you're being
oversensitive and imagining things that aren't there. The actual
commit message is written in a straightforward and factual way, and
spends special effort on *absolving* the community of this kind of
guilt.
"The community" has nothing to be absolved of, "Strunk & White" has
nothing to do with white supremacy and there is no guilt. If you feel
guilty because you're white then that's your problem. I don't feel
guilty for being white, the same way a black person should not feel
guilty for being black. And I have literally ZERO excuses to make to
you or anybody else in here because I'm white. Assuming guilt based on
the color of your skin and constantly attacking that specific group
because of that is racist. It's that simple. I find it astonishing how
some people here don't seem to realize that (or pretend not to).
And what's the goal anyway? Make us all feel guilty, create yet
another heated discussion, widen divisions, wait for the occasional
folks who dare to speak up against this vitriol and kick them out? And
then what? What is the plan here exactly? Don't you folks realize this
is a technical forum? Don't you understand how inappropriate it is to
constantly bring up these kinds of messages up here, and force people
to either witness them silently for fear of repercussions, or to
engage in the discussion and risk paying the consequences in terms of
work / hiring / career / status / reputation etc.? Because that's what
happens, and we all know it. This is a very public forum and we can
all be traced back to here. There are professionals here, people who
go to conferences and/or make a living out of Python, who pay the rent
and support their family with it, and that don't want to be put in
this position.
It does not scale. It will never scale. Because whether we like it or
not we have to coexist together in this virtual space, including with
people we don't like. And this is why it is such a good idea to leave
politics out of the door and only stay focused on Python. We will
still have different opinions and occasional clashes, but as long as
they are technical they will be genuine, prolific and everything will
be fine as it was before "this" started (I've been reading this list
for 12 years now). Discussing politics, on the other hand, will only
keep bringing conflict over and over again. There's tons of proof of
this already, and I can't envision a different outcome in the long
run. Because most of us are not OK with being put against a wall and
being blamed for "supremacy", "guilt", "privilege" or whatever term
you have in your jargon. I certainly am not. Furthermore, that jargon
makes no sense outside of the US and it's just ridiculous. I'm
European, am split between living here and in Asia, and I can
guarantee you that much.
Please, stop this.
If your job depends on you ignoring white supremacy, it's likely that
your workplace is unethical. Personally I'd rather starve than uphold
white supremacy, but that's just me.
Do think about it, tho.
-
Giampaolo - gmpy.dev <https://gmpy.dev/about>
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