On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 6:21 AM Joao S. O. Bueno <jsbu...@python.org.br>
wrote:
> Here is another hint that this usage would not resolve the problem of
>>
> having a literal frozenset. Even in the core of this discussion, with folks
> participating and knowing what they are talking about, the first thing that
> comes to mind when seeing a method call is that the target set would
> be copied.
>
sure, and in the general case, a_set.frozen() would presumably return a
copy.
as does frozenset(a_set) -- which is all we have at the moment.
> But upon seeing a method call, we can just think first of a runtime
> behavior
> Correctly, btw. Any optimization there would be an exception, that people
> would
> have to know by heart.
>
But people shouldn't have to think about to trigger a compiler optimization
anyway, that's just a nice bonus the compiler does for you.
If this does all come to pass, then:
s = {3,8,2}.frozen()
will be slightly faster, in some case, than
s = frozenset({3,8,2}
but the result would be the same.
There are plenty of tricks to in python to get a touch more performance,
this would just be one more
and frankly pretty rare that it would make an noticable difference at all.
+1 on this
+0 on f{}
-1 on making frozenset a keyword
-CHB
On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 10:31 AM Steven D'Aprano <st...@pearwood.info>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2022 at 07:12:04AM -0500, Ricky Teachey wrote:
>> > Why does it need to be called at all?
>> >
>> > {1, 2, 3}.frozen
>>
>> For the same reason that most methods are methods, not properties.
>>
>> The aim of a good API is not to minimize the amount of typing, it is to
>> communicate the *meaning* of the code as best as possible.
>>
>> `{1, 2, 3}.frozen` says that the result is an attribute (property,
>> member) of the set. Like *name* to a person, or *tail* to a dog, the
>> attribute API represents something which is part of, or a quality of,
>> the object. The frozenset is not an attribute of the set, it is a
>> transformation of the set into a different type.
>>
>> A transformation should be written as an explicit function or method
>> call, not as attribute access. Yes, we can hide that transformation
>> behind a property just to save typing two characters, but that is an
>> abuse of notation.
>>
>> Also, it is standard in Python to avoid properties if the computation
>> could be expensive. Copying a large set or millions of elements into a
>> frozenset could be expensive, so we should keep it a method call.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve
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--
Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris)
Python Language Consulting
- Teaching
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