Hi Greg,
On 03/11/2022 01:20, Greg Troxel via QGIS-Developer wrote:
Régis Haubourg via QGIS-Developer<qgis-developer@lists.osgeo.org>
writes:
I think it's really unfortunate that people object to using email, for
reasons that to me border on fashion.
Besides archives, mailinglists have another important point, which is
that the set of subscribers to a list are a community, a group that
makes some effort to belong, and people tend to remain. I don't see
this with other mechanisms.
Agreed. I think - hoping I am not rewriting history - that Discourse was
created to address these issues, with keeping the advantages of the
mailing lists.
I agree about too much traffic. Between it being easy to type, vs an
expectation of thoughtfulness in email, and people popping into chats,
expecting help, and then leaving, I find it too much and only follow a
few.
Same here.
- we also have issues, Pull requests and potential GitHub discussions
to not forget here :)
We do, but that's proprietary software and relying on it more raises the
cost of leaving.
Clearly, but if we had gitea or a self hosted gitlab, the problem of
having a good part of the discussions there would be the same, even with
FOSS versions.
- adding a new communication channel without stating officially which
is the main channel just breaks the single source of truth principle
we had with mailing lists. I have seen recently two feedback from
community users thinking that there was no debate on major topics,
just because the discussion on the mailing list topics stalled. But
those discussions in fact did occur, but spread across those new
channels, and we didn't have enough bandwidth to summarize the
decision on the mailing list (and we also forgot). This is the most
annoying issue.
I think this should be fixed by declaring the mailinglist to be the
communication method of record.
Discourse is a modern forum, that can act as a chat if you are inline,
or a mailing list, and let users tune their notifications levels
pretty nicely. Just have a look to the main page, stating the
principles of this tool [0]
This is interesting and I don't have experience with it. I suspect that
means the kinds of projects I tend to participate in are either
mailinglist culture projects or github only.
- Discourse as one organized and persistent place, including the
osgeo history discussions. This would be the main communication
channel. I will contact OSGEO to see if the system administration
committee want to go this way for all the osgeo mailing lists.
I am open to considering this if it functions as a non-broken
mailinglist. That's a tall order, with From: fields correct without
messing up DKIM/DMARC, but maybe there is good enough.
- We choose on main chat tool for instant messaging. Discord or Revolt
could be the choice. I would vote for open source first. So this would
be Element-Matrix or Revolt. Revolt is a bit too much overlapping
Discourse feature to me. Element Matrix is already bridged to IRC and
exists.
I would say that open source, clients and server should be an absolute
requirement, and there should be a very strong bias to federated and
already in use. And, I'd include "people who avoid Google push services
do not have a second-class experience".
I agree, as long as it doesn't divert too much our workforce from
focusing on QGIS and that we don't fall into vendor locking traps. But I
know we have a diversity of opinions in the project.
You say Element Matrix, but I think it's really "Matrix" and people can
use whatever clients they want (and I get it that most use Element).
Yep, sorry for this shortcut. I link both because many non tech don't
even know about Matrix protocol.
Also, revolt's terms contain:
You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your account
and password, including but not limited to the restriction of access to
your computer and/or account. You agree to accept responsibility for any
and all activities or actions that occur under your account and/or
password, whether your password is with our Service or a third-party
service.
which seems like it is trying to be an indemnification, and it is
clearly unreasonable. I don't think it's ok for osgeo projects to ask
people to sign contracta with third parties as part of participating.
But, I realize I am likely viewed as an extremist.
That said, revolt's terms (for their site) are less troublesome than
many other centralized services.
Interesting. I had a look at the project info. The idea is really to
offer a FOSS Discord alternative but the number of contributors is not
that high (8). and the rationale behind this project is really to fill
this FOSS alternative gap. When Discourse offers something radically
different.
All the best and thanks a lot for those constructive thoughts. I'll
raise this discussion to the next PSC.
//
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