On Tue, 26 May 2026 at 02:25, Rainer Hurling <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear QGIS devs, > I am writing to you on behalf of the small group of SAGA GIS developers. > This thread has raised several points and perspectives that are of great > interest to us, and we would like to share the SAGA team’s perspective > on them. > > However, before we contribute here, we would like to discuss this at our > regular developer meeting next Friday (May 29). We have already added > the topic to the agenda :) > After that, we will post here in the thread and try to outline our options. > > @Nyall: Could you please make the “SAGA Processing Nextgen” plugin, > which is currently set to “private”, public again for a while? I’d like > to fork it, thanks! > Done! Can you let me know when you've forked so that I can revert to private again? Thanks, Nyall > > Best wishes, > Rainer (FreeBSD ports committer) > > > Am 22.05.26 um 01:55 schrieb Nyall Dawson via QGIS-Developer: > > On Thu, 21 May 2026 at 19:53, Stefano Campus via QGIS-Developer <qgis- > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > > > > > I’m writing to the dev list because I think this issue is of interest. > > > > > > For the past few days, the SAGA Next plugin—which allows you to use > > SAGA GIS modules within QGIS Processing—has been unavailable. > > > > Thanks for kicking off this discussion -- I've been waiting for someone > > to raise it 😁🍿 > > > > To explain the situation: > > > > I've been "maintaining" that plugin for years. That's an over- > > exaggeration... it hasn't received any love from me beyond reviewing a > > pull request once every couple of years. I initially forked it (SAGA > > NextGen) from the core SAGA plugin back in 2019 to help solve issues > > with SAGA availability of LTR releases and broken stable API. Then in > > 2019 https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/230 > > <https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/230> > > followed, when the built-in SAGA plugin was removed and it went from > > being an out-of-the-box, "qgis.org <http://qgis.org> maintained" plugin > > to relying on the third party SAGA NextGen "community maintained" > > plugin. That's 100% because it was concluded by all the developers > > responsible for that code that it wasn't up to the quality standards of > > the rest of QGIS. > > > > It was always a fragile mess of a plugin. Part of that was because of > > the difficulties associated with SAGA versioning, part of that was > > because it was initially forked from old python code that no-one had > > ever modernised. To say it was held together with chewing gum would be a > > lie... it was held together with some soggy wet toilet paper at > > best! 😆 This really bugged me. I'd see constant user frustration > > because it never worked well, and IMO this user frustration was harming > > the reputation of QGIS itself. It didn't help that I'd keep reading > > blogs/guides/tutorials where people were recommending using it for > > operations where QGIS native tools are SOOOO much better (eg vector > > operations like buffering). > > > > It was never my desire to become the maintainer of the plugin and put in > > the work required to bring it up to the quality standard I hold to, > > rather, I offered it on an initially voluntary basis to fix immediate > > issues I saw users were experiencing and with the hope that making it a > > third party plugin would help grow a healthy community that would take > > it over. > > > > That never happened... Instead it was just another burden that I carried > > for everyone, with the associated lack of thanks and lack of any > > recognition beyond angry emails when it didn't work. 🤷. Ah well, that's > > just life as a QGIS developer, we all deal with that, and I'm thick- > > skinned enough to handle it! > > > > At least, I thought so. Then the AI apocalypse hit in 2026. > > > > As a response to my frustration with the lack of support the user > > community is giving to open-source developers during this INCREDIBLY > > challenging time, I decided to close off a bunch of my public > > repositories. Because, hey, I don't want to directly train the > > technologies that will likely destroy the whole economics behind open- > > source software development. So I closed off repositories for things I'd > > voluntarily made public, including dropping any QGIS plugin that I > > wasn't directly using myself anymore, and that wasn't funded or in use > > by my customers (or where a better native tool now exists). And that > > included the SAGA NextGen plugin. I have no use for it, and none of my > > customers use it, and it's a PITA to "maintain". > > > > I knew that by doing so I'd be stirring up trouble, and honestly, that > > was partly my intention! I wanted to force a discussion about this, and > > raise widespread attention to the issues that would otherwise go > > unnoticed. It's the SAGA plugin today, but tomorrow it could easily be > > QGIS itself, or GDAL, or PostGIS, or PDAL, or ... 😱 > > > > My personal preference would be that we continue to port useful tools > > from SAGA to native QGIS versions of these tools. I've done this in the > > past (see https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/53794 <https://github.com/ > > qgis/QGIS/pull/53794>, https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/61722 <https:// > > github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/61722>) for tools that I need myself, or that > > my customers rely on, and the QGIS native tools are so much better > > (***FOR QGIS USERS***) then calling out to the SAGA versions. They have > > full format support for all the data sources QGIS supports, they work > > with massive rasters without memory issues, and they are much faster as > > they don't require data conversion to intermediate formats. And on top > > of that, they "just work" everywhere QGIS works -- there's no fussing > > around with SAGA version compatibility, and no security risks with > > python code shelling out to run random batch files. > > > > (Please understand that I'm not insulting the SAGA developers or their > > versions of these tools here... in my experience the SAGA developer's > > logic is great, the code is well written and the algorithms themselves > > are well designed. It's a testament to the SAGA developers how easy it > > is to port the tools to QGIS, they are very readable and well > > documented. My point is that we offer a better experience to **QGIS** > > users by porting the tools to native equivalents using QGIS API > directly). > > > > If anyone has particular SAGA tools they rely on for their work, then > > please reach out and I'll let you know how much it would cost to sponsor > > a port of that tool. > > > > Finally, please note that I didn't delete the plugin repository, I just > > made it private instead of public. I'm happy to temporarily make it > > public again if someone wants to fork it, but after they do that I'll > > then permanently erase my repo. If someone wants to do this then let me > > know and I'll re-open temporarily. > > > > Nyall > > > > > > > > > > According to reports in the QGIS community’s Telegram group, > > maintaining this plugin is becoming increasingly difficult due to > > developments in the SAGA project, which can cause the plugin to stop > > working. > > > > > > I recall that until a couple of years ago, SAGA was, like GRASS, a > > resource installed directly within QGIS, but then, precisely because of > > the difficulty in keeping up with SAGA’s developments, it was decided to > > treat SAGA as a third-party resource accessible via plugins. > > > > > > I believe it is right that this important resource should not be > > maintained on a voluntary basis by a single developer/user, but that it > > should be taken on by the community. > > > > > > Do you think it would be a good idea to propose to the Steering Group > > that its maintenance be taken on directly by the QGIS.org Foundation and > > that a certain sum (1000–2000 euros?) be set aside in the annual budget > > for its maintenance? > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > stefano campus > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > QGIS-Developer mailing list > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > > > > > List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > > <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > > <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > QGIS-Developer mailing list > > [email protected] > > List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > >
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