Hi Rainer, Thanks for working on this and all of your work on SAGA. I am considering taking over the plugin because I use and teach with SAGA in QGIS and it works for me in the current state. If I wanted to ask questions or get updates on potentially breaking changes would I do that on the sourceforge forum? I did try using PySAGA found it to be much slower but I don't think I was using the pre file conversion the the current plugin uses or I wasn't batching my calls correctly so I would be interested to find out the best way to set this up in the future. the repository is here- https://github.com/baswein/qgis-processing-saga-nextgen Thanks again. -Bas
On Mon, Jun 1, 2026 at 2:24 PM Rainer Hurling via QGIS-Developer < [email protected]> wrote: > Dear QGIS developers, > I had promised to get back to you after a meeting with our SAGA > dev-team. I would like to do so here. > > Am 25.05.26 um 18:25 schrieb Rainer Hurling via QGIS-Developer: > > Dear QGIS devs, > > I am writing to you on behalf of the small group of SAGA GIS developers. > > This thread has raised several points and perspectives that are of great > > interest to us, and we would like to share the SAGA team’s perspective > > on them. > > > > However, before we contribute here, we would like to discuss this at our > > regular developer meeting next Friday (May 29). We have already added > > the topic to the agenda :) > > After that, we will post here in the thread and try to outline our > options. > > > > @Nyall: Could you please make the “SAGA Processing Nextgen” plugin, > > which is currently set to “private”, public again for a while? I’d like > > to fork it, thanks! > > > > Best wishes, > > Rainer (FreeBSD ports committer) > > > Since this thread concerns the “Processing Saga NextGen Provider” > plugin, it should be noted up front that this is a QGIS plugin developed > by a QGIS developer. The SAGA team was never involved in its development. > > We discussed the following in our SAGA meeting: > > - Basically, we (at SAGA) have no interest in maintaining the existing > plugin, further developing it, or even developing a new, more > comprehensive SAGA plugin for QGIS. > > - If there is interest within the QGIS community in developing a more > comprehensive plugin for integrating SAGA, we recommend not building on > the SAGA command-line tool ‘saga_cmd’ but instead using PySAGA (or the > C++ API). This would allow the respective functionalities and parameters > of all non-interactive SAGA tools to be used directly and > comprehensively. It would also allow in-memory passing of datasets, i.e. > no temporary files would need to be written. > > - Converting all data types on a 1:1 basis is likely to remain a > challenge. There are data types in SAGA that do not exist in QGIS. > > - Overall, we are positive about the integration of SAGA in QGIS, but we > think such a project needs a sustainable approach. If the QGIS community > wishes to improve or update the integration of SAGA with QGIS, the SAGA > team is happy to provide information and advice if requested. We would > also be happy to establish or point to communication channels so that > the community can stay informed about new SAGA versions and upcoming > changes. > > > A personal note on the “Processing Saga NextGen Provider” plugin: Since > I am the maintainer ([email protected]) of both the SAGA GIS port [1] > and the QGIS port [2] for FreeBSD, I decided out of curiosity to copy > the SAGA NextGen Provider plugin from a QGIS 3 installation to a QGIS 4 > installation and then run the ‘scan_qt6_compat’ v1.2 plugin by François > Thevand on the SAGA plugin in QGIS 4. This allowed the SAGA plugin to be > converted to Qt6 and QGIS 4 fully automatically and seemingly without > errors, and it can now be used in QGIS 4 as usual. Perhaps this is a way > for the QGIS community to continue working with this plugin for the time > being? > > [1] https://www.freshports.org/math/saga > [2] https://www.freshports.org/graphics/qgis and > https://www.freshports.org/graphics/qgis-ltr > > Best regards, > Rainer > > > > Am 22.05.26 um 01:55 schrieb Nyall Dawson via QGIS-Developer: > >> On Thu, 21 May 2026 at 19:53, Stefano Campus via QGIS-Developer <qgis- > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > >> > >> > I’m writing to the dev list because I think this issue is of > interest. > >> > > >> > For the past few days, the SAGA Next plugin—which allows you to use > >> SAGA GIS modules within QGIS Processing—has been unavailable. > >> > >> Thanks for kicking off this discussion -- I've been waiting for > >> someone to raise it 😁🍿 > >> > >> To explain the situation: > >> > >> I've been "maintaining" that plugin for years. That's an over- > >> exaggeration... it hasn't received any love from me beyond reviewing a > >> pull request once every couple of years. I initially forked it (SAGA > >> NextGen) from the core SAGA plugin back in 2019 to help solve issues > >> with SAGA availability of LTR releases and broken stable API. Then in > >> 2019 https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/230 > >> <https://github.com/qgis/QGIS-Enhancement-Proposals/issues/230> > >> followed, when the built-in SAGA plugin was removed and it went from > >> being an out-of-the-box, "qgis.org <http://qgis.org> maintained" > >> plugin to relying on the third party SAGA NextGen "community > >> maintained" plugin. That's 100% because it was concluded by all the > >> developers responsible for that code that it wasn't up to the quality > >> standards of the rest of QGIS. > >> > >> It was always a fragile mess of a plugin. Part of that was because of > >> the difficulties associated with SAGA versioning, part of that was > >> because it was initially forked from old python code that no-one had > >> ever modernised. To say it was held together with chewing gum would be > >> a lie... it was held together with some soggy wet toilet paper at > >> best! 😆 This really bugged me. I'd see constant user frustration > >> because it never worked well, and IMO this user frustration was > >> harming the reputation of QGIS itself. It didn't help that I'd keep > >> reading blogs/guides/tutorials where people were recommending using it > >> for operations where QGIS native tools are SOOOO much better (eg > >> vector operations like buffering). > >> > >> It was never my desire to become the maintainer of the plugin and put > >> in the work required to bring it up to the quality standard I hold to, > >> rather, I offered it on an initially voluntary basis to fix immediate > >> issues I saw users were experiencing and with the hope that making it > >> a third party plugin would help grow a healthy community that would > >> take it over. > >> > >> That never happened... Instead it was just another burden that I > >> carried for everyone, with the associated lack of thanks and lack of > >> any recognition beyond angry emails when it didn't work. 🤷. Ah well, > >> that's just life as a QGIS developer, we all deal with that, and I'm > >> thick- skinned enough to handle it! > >> > >> At least, I thought so. Then the AI apocalypse hit in 2026. > >> > >> As a response to my frustration with the lack of support the user > >> community is giving to open-source developers during this INCREDIBLY > >> challenging time, I decided to close off a bunch of my public > >> repositories. Because, hey, I don't want to directly train the > >> technologies that will likely destroy the whole economics behind open- > >> source software development. So I closed off repositories for things > >> I'd voluntarily made public, including dropping any QGIS plugin that I > >> wasn't directly using myself anymore, and that wasn't funded or in use > >> by my customers (or where a better native tool now exists). And that > >> included the SAGA NextGen plugin. I have no use for it, and none of my > >> customers use it, and it's a PITA to "maintain". > >> > >> I knew that by doing so I'd be stirring up trouble, and honestly, that > >> was partly my intention! I wanted to force a discussion about this, > >> and raise widespread attention to the issues that would otherwise go > >> unnoticed. It's the SAGA plugin today, but tomorrow it could easily be > >> QGIS itself, or GDAL, or PostGIS, or PDAL, or ... 😱 > >> > >> My personal preference would be that we continue to port useful tools > >> from SAGA to native QGIS versions of these tools. I've done this in > >> the past (see https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/53794 <https:// > >> github.com/ qgis/QGIS/pull/53794>, https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/ > >> pull/61722 <https:// github.com/qgis/QGIS/pull/61722>) for tools that > >> I need myself, or that my customers rely on, and the QGIS native tools > >> are so much better (***FOR QGIS USERS***) then calling out to the SAGA > >> versions. They have full format support for all the data sources QGIS > >> supports, they work with massive rasters without memory issues, and > >> they are much faster as they don't require data conversion to > >> intermediate formats. And on top of that, they "just work" everywhere > >> QGIS works -- there's no fussing around with SAGA version > >> compatibility, and no security risks with python code shelling out to > >> run random batch files. > >> > >> (Please understand that I'm not insulting the SAGA developers or their > >> versions of these tools here... in my experience the SAGA developer's > >> logic is great, the code is well written and the algorithms themselves > >> are well designed. It's a testament to the SAGA developers how easy it > >> is to port the tools to QGIS, they are very readable and well > >> documented. My point is that we offer a better experience to **QGIS** > >> users by porting the tools to native equivalents using QGIS API > >> directly). > >> > >> If anyone has particular SAGA tools they rely on for their work, then > >> please reach out and I'll let you know how much it would cost to > >> sponsor a port of that tool. > >> > >> Finally, please note that I didn't delete the plugin repository, I > >> just made it private instead of public. I'm happy to temporarily make > >> it public again if someone wants to fork it, but after they do that > >> I'll then permanently erase my repo. If someone wants to do this then > >> let me know and I'll re-open temporarily. > >> > >> Nyall > >> > >> > >> > > >> > According to reports in the QGIS community’s Telegram group, > >> maintaining this plugin is becoming increasingly difficult due to > >> developments in the SAGA project, which can cause the plugin to stop > >> working. > >> > > >> > I recall that until a couple of years ago, SAGA was, like GRASS, a > >> resource installed directly within QGIS, but then, precisely because > >> of the difficulty in keeping up with SAGA’s developments, it was > >> decided to treat SAGA as a third-party resource accessible via plugins. > >> > > >> > I believe it is right that this important resource should not be > >> maintained on a voluntary basis by a single developer/user, but that > >> it should be taken on by the community. > >> > > >> > Do you think it would be a good idea to propose to the Steering > >> Group that its maintenance be taken on directly by the QGIS.org > >> Foundation and that a certain sum (1000–2000 euros?) be set aside in > >> the annual budget for its maintenance? > >> > > >> > Thank you > >> > > >> > stefano campus > _______________________________________________ > QGIS-Developer mailing list > [email protected] > List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-developer > -- ___________________________ Sebastian "Bas* " Gutwein *rhymes with Josh Regenerative Design Group 1 Chevalier Ave Greenfield, Ma 01301 Web: regenerativedesigngroup.com (631) 241-1018 *Look close, think big, make change. *
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