Am 08.09.2008 um 22:58 schrieb Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD - Novlog: > > On 8 Sep 2008, at 22:43, Sebastian Werner wrote: > >> >> Am 08.09.2008 um 22:26 schrieb Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD - Novlog: >> >>> 100% in line with you. >>> >>> I would like to be able to use qooXdoo without the toolchain or I >>> will >>> have to choose on my 3 items short list between SmartClient or >>> OpenLaszlo for only one reason : toolchain look like mandatory. >>> >>> I really feel the power of qooXdoo and I really want to use it but >>> without the toolchain and I can explain why. >>> >>> My first reaction was "I don't want Python". and really and don't >>> want >>> it at all. >>> But then, I thought, why not, after all if it is a black box I would >>> never have to see, why not ... >>> >>> After that I understood the problem is not Python but the toolchain >>> itself. >>> I really need to use qooXdoo like a framework + widget lib that I >>> wan't to see like Java/Swing. >>> No one force me to use Eclipse as a toolchain or netbean or IntelliJ >>> or the notepad. >>> Java/Swing is "just" a library. A lot of possible toolchain exists >>> but >>> I can choose not to use any of them. >> >> You can use it without when you use some type of precompiled package. >> You do not need to reexecute this five times a day. > I though about 5 time a minute because it is the frequency our user > will run their application. > Think to our product like a generator so for us the build time is at > runtime. > >> You can built it >> once and use the same version for months (like you would do with >> jquery, etc.) > That look like perfect and in contradiction with what I understood, so > it is good news : toolchain is fully optional and I can use qooXdoo > without toolchain at all ?
Not 100% right. You use it once to compile your packages and after this you just deal with these packages. Sebastian > >> >> >> I am still not sure if we mean the same by "toolchain". Tool chain >> for >> qooxdoo just means a tool to create a distributable version of the >> classes. But there are also many other features. All of these feature >> do not need to be used. All of them are optional. And you can still >> use every backend you like (tool chain is not backend!). > I fully understand that and would not have considered qooXdoo if a > Python backend was mandatory :-) > But even knowing that, I wan't to use qooXdoo without any toolchain by > just including (lazilly if possible) the javascript and ressources > files. >> >> >> Sebastian >> >> >>> >>> >>> So, at the end, I don't care about Python or how that toolchain is >>> made. Can I yes or not use qooXdoo without toolchain ? >>> Finally, the question may look like it is asked with some brutality >>> (yes or not) but this is good because choosing is hard, si if the >>> qooXdoo community feel that all developper should use toolchain for >>> qooXdoo it will give me the hard answer I seeking. >>> >>> Whatever the result of that answer will be, I'm sure it will help >>> both >>> existing user and hesitating user to know for sure if yes or not the >>> toolchain is not just recommended but mandatory. >>> >>> On 8 Sep 2008, at 21:34, SaschaK wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi all together, >>>> >>>> here comes the 3rd comment regarding python ! >>>> >>>> Exactly like Jean-Baptiste, I'm trying to find a UI library soon. >>>> Also, I don't want to depend on python. First I was delighted >>>> about >>>> qx but >>>> reading, and not really understanding the thing about python really >>>> put me >>>> off. >>>> >>>> Maybe that there were only 3 complains up to now because others did >>>> not even >>>> start to look at qx after reading about python. I got the >>>> information about >>>> Qooxdoo from the german computer magazine "Internet magazin". Maybe >>>> that >>>> thousands of other readers stopped by at Qooxdo.org and turned away >>>> after >>>> trying to get the "Hello World" example to work, like me and the >>>> other 2. >>>> (By the way there were also other frameworks introduced, but I did >>>> not have >>>> a look at them because I started with Qooxdoo) >>>> >>>> I also thought qx is a library I can just use, and that I had just >>>> to add >>>> all files which are to be included and that's it. Would be good to >>>> list all >>>> UI components I need and pass it to a tool on your web page. This >>>> tool >>>> decides which js files I need to include in which order. >>>> >>>> Well, obviously this is not possible. >>>> >>>> Please inform me whenever we (us 3 and other developers) can start >>>> without >>>> having to install python and whenever we can use qx in the context >>>> we need >>>> to use it in. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance >>>> SaschaK >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Sebastian Werner wrote: >>>>> >>>>> For real application developers this should not hurd either. There >>>>> were >>>>> exactly two comments regarding python (I excluded Mike, which was >>>>> mainly >>>>> an answer ;)). The problem is that we may say more boldly that it >>>>> does >>>>> not mean that the whole server must run on python. qooxdoo is and >>>>> was >>>>> ever backend independent so everybody could choose the favorite >>>>> there. >>>>> >>>>> qooxdoo with the toolchain means tailor-made applications >>>>> out-of-the-box. I pay this price easily when my result application >>>>> is >>>>> only 10% faster (in fact it should be a lot more than that). >>>>> >>>>> Sebastian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jean-Baptiste BRIAUD - Novlog schrieb: >>>>>> Just for information : >>>>>> http://sixrevisions.com/javascript/ >>>>>> promising_javascript_frameworks/ >>>>>> >>>>>> According to some comments, having qooXdoo without the Python >>>>>> build >>>>>> machinery, just as a framework/lib is a real need. >>>>>> In other words, that Python machinery is a blocking point for >>>>>> some >>>>>> people to adopt qooXdoo. >>>>>> >>>>>> qooXdoo is in 4th position in the list ! Great. >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move >>>>>> Developer's >>>>>> challenge >>>>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>>>> great >>>>>> prizes >>>>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>>>>> the >>>>>> world >>>>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>>> challenge >>>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>>> great >>>>> prizes >>>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>>>> the >>>>> world >>>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> View this message in context: >>>> http://www.nabble.com/qooXdoo-without-any-external-tools-or-build-helper-tp19308163p19379477.html >>>> Sent from the qooxdoo-devel mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>>> challenge >>>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>>> great prizes >>>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>>> the world >>>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >>> challenge >>> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >>> great prizes >>> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >>> the world >>> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's >> challenge >> Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win >> great prizes >> Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in >> the world >> http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ >> _______________________________________________ >> qooxdoo-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's > challenge > Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win > great prizes > Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in > the world > http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ > _______________________________________________ > qooxdoo-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ _______________________________________________ qooxdoo-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
