Exactly Dave,  I'd rather go than be the focus of my family rather than them living.  Once I go, they can cope and move on with their lives.  My Dad had to make the decision with my Grandmother a few years ago.  It was the hardest decision he has ever made but knows she is much  happier where she is.  She is still with us in our hearts and we keep her alive with memories.  Not watching her suffer everyday.
 
Stacy
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:42 PM
Subject: [QUAD-L] Shedding light on terri's situation

so you are saying that living as a vegetable is better than death?  doesn't bode well for our religion does it?  i personally am looking forward to the hereafter because i believe it is better than earth life even at the peak of health.  if i go veggy - pull the plug and don't even think twice about my family.  they'll see me soon enough.  i don't need to lie around drooling and shitting just so they can get positive strokes about 'saving' me.  HE will save me much better than you all could ever imagine.
dave
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 3/25/2005 2:07:51 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't think there's any harm at all in letting someone take care of a person in Teri's condition if they are willing, and somehow know it's the best thing for the person in question.  But the problem is that I think a lot of people wouldn't choose to live like that if given a choice, so whose wishes do you value more?  And how can you ever be sure of the wishes of the vegetative person?
 
No one really knows what the vegetative person is aware of - maybe they're aware of absolutely nothing and dying would be no different in their experience than being kept alive in their state.  Maybe they're aware of some things on some levels, but have no real interior mental life as we'd usually conceive of it - their experience is just neutral with no value to them either way.  Maybe they do have some sort of interior mental life, but it's miserable for them, and they would rather not live in their state.  Maybe they have some sort of interior mental life, and it's pleasant and worth being in - like some kind of out of body experience where you are still very much "yourself" in spirit, even though you are not able to think or communicate in any concrete way. 
 
It all just confuses me so much, because ultimately you want to respect the wishes of the person in question, but you may not ever know their wishes for sure. 
 
I think that if I had a relative in that state, I'd want to care for them and would take comfort in just knowing that they were alive and getting to see them, but how could you ever separate out your emotions and know if that was the best thing for them, or just the best and most comforting thing for yourself, to not have to say goodbye?
 
The more I think about the "issue" the more mixed my feelings become.  I don't know how anyone can form a strong opinion either way.  I think it requires making a huge leap of faith in either direction, assuming that life is or isn't worth living in a condition that you don't have firsthand knowledge of. 


From: Jim Lubin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 12:41 PM
To: Stacy Harim; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Shedding light on terri's situation

Stacy,

I had a nurse who had a son who was severely disabled from birth. The doctors did not expect him live long. He is now in his early 20s. He is ventilator dependent and tube feed. He does not communicate in any real way but he does respond to his family.  He even went to school when he was younger. His family made a lot of sacrifices to keep him home and to take care of him. When I met him I could not tell at all if he was aware of what was going on around him. His mother and sister thought so.

I would not chose to live like that. I'm not about to decide another person's quality of life based on my personal criteria. If someone is willing to care for a person in that condition what is the harm in letting them?

Jim

At 11:05 PM 3/23/2005, Stacy Harim wrote:
You respond to people and you KNOW you are eating.  She has no idea what is going on.
 
Stacy
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Lubin

You can put food and water before me and I would die if no one was there to feed me. So how does a person like me fit into your analogy?

At 05:11 PM 3/23/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  A dog feeds and drinks themselves-- we just SUPPLY the food. In terri's case you can put food and water before her and she would still die-----Some human must force a tube into her bowels then constantly feed the tube with food and water just to keep her living-----so completely different issue here.
                                                     Dan
 
The moral flabbiness born of the bitch goddess Success. That- with the squalid cash interpretation put on the word success- is our national disease.  -William James  1906
 
The moral flabbiness born of the bitch goddess Success. That- with the squalid cash interpretation put on the word success- is our national disease.  -William James  1906

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