You know Angie me and agree on embryonic research and I agree that freedom of speech is sacred and shouldn’t be compromised but this list that Jim started is for helping each other and discussion but common decency and respect is the path we choose here and believe me when I tell you that the discussions here have been far more heated and we still managed to keep it in context without all the personal attacks.
Mark Jackson RollinOn _____ From: Angie Novak [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 1:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] freedom of speech Jim, While I don't agree with religious, racial or homosexual slurs, they aren't against the law. As far as I know. Yes, it is ignorant, but people are entitled to what they believe, and if they choose to voice their opinions, although they aren't politically correct, it is their right to do so. The apologies are to save face, that's all. I wouldn't intentionally insult anyone on their beliefs, race, or sexual preference. But it is a right, freedom of speech, which includes unfavorable speech as well. If I'm wrong, let me know. Seriously, let me know if I'm wrong about the law. I know I don't expect anybody to kiss my rear if I'm offended by something. I don't think anyone should have to do that. -Angie Jim Lubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Angie, I don't know how much you watch the news, but everyday there seems to be someone who is forced to apologies for calling someone a racial slur or homosexual slur. So what makes it okay to demean and insult someone's religious beliefs? We were having a civil debate on embryonic stem cells where people were voicing why they were for or against it, without insulting each other or someone's beliefs. Jim At 10:25 AM 4/10/2007, Angie Novak wrote: I disagree. Even hate speech falls under freedom of speech. If it didn't, people would be in jail for just speaking their minds. That's not America. Jim Lubin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You can't use "freedom of speech" to justify hate speech. It was completely uncalled for, as were most of his other rants. At 07:37 AM 4/10/2007, Angie Novak wrote: Freedom of speech, Dan T. -Angie Dan T <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: John, you're getting offensive... Dan T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the excess eggs should be served at communion. Like the caviar of Christ or something. Maybe add a caudacill from Mary -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Sent: Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Six Stem Cell Facts So what do you do with the thousands of excess fertilized eggs that result from in vitro fertilization? Store them forever? Ban the process? These excess eggs are thrown into the garbage everyday yet I don't hear anyone complaining. So what's your answer. Dan At 07:50 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response: Glad to see you partly agree with me Dan. (yes I realize you were being sarcastic) I don't agree with the part about having elaborate funerals and burying them, but yes we must not destroy unused fertilized eggs created for IVF treatments. Using unused embryos is not the same as organ donation because organ donor are dead before organs are harvested. Removing stem cells from an embryo kills the embryo. I've listened to Dr Kerr from Johns Hopkins talk a few times about his research. HYPERLINK "http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/"http://www.hopkinsneuro.org/tm/ watch his presentation at the 2006 symposium here HYPERLINK "http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en"http://vi deo.google.com/videoplay?docid=2767307331641285489&hl=en he mentioned that they want to use the embryos created for IVF that are deformed (something to that effect) and can not be used for in-vitro treatment. Now I can go along with using those that could not be used to result in a pregnancy. I agree with S. 30: A bill to intensify research to derive human pluripotent stem cell lines At 06:35 PM 4/7/2007, Dan wrote: Yes, yes, yes! We must not destroy all those useless fertilized eggs. We should let them perish on their own and then we should have an elaborate funeral and bury them in a tiny little plot of earth. AND we must not allow abortion at ANY cost. Thank you Jesus! Hallelujah! Dan, who always gives great credence to anything authored by a reverend. At 06:15 PM 4/7/2007 -0700, Jim Lubin said something that elicited my response: SIX STEM CELL FACTS There are non-controversial alternatives worth exploring; such as the reprogramming of ordinary somatic (body) cells, the derivation of stem cells from amniotic fluid, and (assuming that it can be shown that the product is not an embryo), altered nuclear transfer. Concerns about embryo destruction are not only religious; but merely a healthy respect for the human capacity for doing evil in pursuit of the good. The search for cures is not the only motive behind ESC research,; many scientists are interested only in enhancing basic scientific knowledge of such things as cell signaling, tissue growth and early human development. Source: Robert P. George and Thomas V. Berg, "Six Stem Cell Facts," Wall Street Journal, March 14, 2007. 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