You have lost track.
What you say is indeed correct for OEM bonded rubber bushes.
But what we were discussing were aftermarket silicone bushes which come
in 2 parts with a separate centre stainless steel sleeve which isn't
fixed in any way into the bushes.
Jim
On 16/09/2010 18:44, barnacle wrote:
Um, a small observation? I've kinda lost track, but if we're speaking
of the bushes at the inboard end of the lower suspension arms (and
others of a similar type) then their intended method of operation does
not involve rotation of the inner metal parts. The idea is that the
central tube is fixed in position by pressure from the side of the u-
tube, and the outer tube *flexes* on the rubber parts. This is why the
suspension bolts should be tightened with the weight on the vehicle's
wheels.
If the inner steel tube rotates on the bolt going through it, then it
will wear appallingly, and it will not maintain a proper location of
the wheel. They're *bushes*, not bearings.
Which is pretty much what Jin wrote.
Neil
On 15 Sep, 20:55, jin<[email protected]> wrote:
hi Jim
I have used silicone after contacting the manufacturers regarding
this, more from a rust prevention point of view on the front tie rod
bushes as I didn't want my newly shot blasted and painted parts to go
rusty,
I agree with the notion that the bush would be better rotating around
the pivot than within the arm because it is, like you say roughly
finished, I think if I do what we have said with degreasing and re
greasing certain parts it should be the best outcome,
in fact ive just wiped the grease off and slapped it on where I want
it and done a mock up compressing the assembly in the vice and it
seems to work as intended.
on the subject of bushes I think the polys are a bit of a compromise
in terms of which bit should rotate anyway
if you think about it the O.E spec bushes with the bonded-in inner
portion will be doing the pivoting by flexing the bush itself hence
why its always stated to torque the pivot bolt when the car is on the
ground to avoid over twisting the bush when lowering the car off the
jack, this is not the issue with the poly bushes as in the vice I can
rotate it 360 without issue since the parts are separate to one
another, probably for fitting proposes as I imagine they would prove
rather tricky to fit otherwise due to being so hard,
as it stands with the input from yourself and my trial and error I
have an idea now what im going to do and will watch it closely for any
issues
thanks a lot for the help mate
On 15 Sep, 08:39, Jim Hearne<[email protected]> wrote:
I must admit i've never been 100% sure which bit is intended to rotate
on the silicone bushes, i've had several makes and they never say in the
instructions.
But often the bush is fitted into a roughly finished pressed steel hole,
the rear trailing arms on the 2+2 for example, and i'm sure the bush
rotating in that is a very bad idea.
I did as you say, degreased the parts i didn't want to move and put
silicone grease (you do know you can't put ordinary grease on the
silicone don't you) on the centre pin and managed to get the parts i
wanted to rotate to do it.
If thats still the case 8 years later i've no idea but theres no obvious
wear.
Watch out if you degrease the silicone bushes, mine came with a note
warning not to use solvents on them.
Jim
On 15/09/2010 06:44, jin wrote:
good point Jim, and I had considered this happening as a possibility,
however I had reasoned with myself that the original bushes I took out
had the inner steel pivot vulcanised to the bush itself so any
considerable movement would translate to the outer portion of the bush
rotating within the arm,
further to this the bushes im fitting are only a light press fit into
the arm but a very tight fit onto the inner pivot, even prior to
turning the inner pivot down (which I did yesterday prior to reading
your post, oops) it still spun the bush within the arm as opposed to
spinning the bushes on the pivot, mind you this is with the whole
assembly greased up, maybe if I degrease the inner surface of the arm
and outer surface of the bush but keeping the inner pivot and outer
portion of the bush greased I may be able to induce enough friction to
rotate the bush on the inner pivot, ill build it up later and see for
sure.
cheers for your input mate, much appreciated
On 14 Sep, 09:04, Jim Hearne<[email protected]> wrote:
I wouldn't take material off the centre bush.
It's almost certainly designed that length to make sure the bushes
aren't pinched so that the bushes move with the arm and rotate on the
centre bush.
If you shorten the pin almost certainly the bushes will stay still and
rotate in the hole in the arm, the arm is steel and will rust once the
bush wears the paint off, this will then wear the bush.
The centre pin is stainless.
If you need to increase the space for the bushes slightly you can thread
a length of M10 studding through the bracket in the chassis, through a
thick washer, 2 nuts, another thick washer and the other hole in the
chassis.
Then wind the nuts away from each other spreading the bracket on the
chassis slightly.
You will need to go over what you need as it will spring back a fair bit.
Jim
On 13/09/2010 20:02, jin wrote:
great minds think alike, ive a 2mm gap but ive only got 1.5mm thick
repair washers and ive got stainless too, they are the same O.D as the
bush sides but total 3mm overall....
however further investigating shows the inner bush pivot to be about
0.7mm wider than the bushes themselves (these are poly bushes which
come apart) so if I turn off 1mm from the overall length of the bush
pivot I can use 2 stainless washers either side which will give a
little nip to the bush to keep it firm.
ill try it out and report back later
cheers guys
On 13 Sep, 10:23, Jim Hearne<[email protected]> wrote:
I agree, if there is that gap then you should fit some spacing
washers, i'd use stainless steel or they will rust and wear the bushes.
Maybe Quantum changed the part or maybe it's just production tolerances.
Mine have always been a tight but possible fit.
Jim
On 12/09/2010 22:39, jin wrote:
just checked
the inner pivot bush is 51.2mm
and the inner dimension of the lower arm pickup is 53.1mm
so i need 2x 1mm thick spacers to go either side,.....
On 12 Sep, 20:17, jin<[email protected]> wrote:
hmm, to pinch ot not to pinch?
there is definate pinching going on here on mine, luckely ive only
fitted one side,
ill measure up the upper portion of the box and measure up the length
of the inner track bush which should give me a distance, if its
greater than 2mm ill shim it either side
cheers for the input
ill keep you posted
On 11 Sep, 22:10, Jim Hearne<[email protected]> wrote:
I've built or rebuilt 3 2+2's and none have washers there or noticably
pinched.
They have always been a very good fit on the bushes for me.
Jim
On 11/09/2010 21:55, hansdefauwes wrote:
I remember putting a washer in.
either a washer or pich it - so I chose for a washer.
Hans
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Hearne"<[email protected]>
To:<[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2010 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] inner track arm bush spacer?
No, there aren't any spacers or washers in there normally.
Jim
On 10/09/2010 18:23, jin wrote:
hi all
the 2+2 is coming along nicely with only a few small jobs left before
I turn the key,
today was suspension bolting on day,
I remember when I stripped the car I noticed that the box section
where the inner pivot bushes for the lower arm seemed a little
"pinched" inwards, almost as if the bush was too short or the box
section was too wide between side to side.
today ive fitted up the new arm with new poly bushes and it was a sung
fit within the box section implying that this bush is the same size as
the old one but the box section still looks pinched in slightly.
should there be a spacer between both or one side of the bush?, it
looks like a 3mm shim would do it but I don't want to do something I
shouldn't.
has anyone else had such issue or noticed this?
cheers all.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum
Owners Group" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/quantumowners?hl=en
IMPORTANT NOTE: All information presented herewith is provided on an "As Is"
basis, without warranty or the implication thereof. Neither the Quantum Owners Club nor
the individuals associated with the Quantum Owners Club or in the preparation of the
above information shall have any liability to any person or entity with respect to
liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly by the
instructions contained within this or related message(s).
