There are probably many versions of the Helvetica family floating around, I know of several… not sure how many are bona fide.
On 3 May 2010 16:13, Rick Mann <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks for the explanation. I was shocked that anyone would change the > kerning between numeral pairs, as it undermines the point of monospacing the > numerals for alignment. But I worked around it by using Helvetica Neue. > > On May 2, 2010, at 22:22:14, Alastair Leith wrote: > > > Hi Rick, George and others, > > > > If you are just using digits, use a monospaced font (at least for the > digits). This will get you out of most problems. > > > > In addition to the fact that with most fonts glyphs are different widths, > this is also a kerning issue. Kerning is the space between any two > characters and is typically defined in a font with a table of character > pairs and the adjustment for each pair from the default space defined for > each character. So while "01" may have same glyph widths (sum) but different > kerning adjustment to "10", "11" will have different glyph width (sum) and > different kerning to "01" and "10". Letter-spacing is defined in DTP > software as the spacing assigned to a group of glyphs which adjusts in or > out for every pair of glyphs in the group in addition to kerning pair > values. > > > > I bump into this myself in QC all the time when outputting debugging info > as a string from a float, the decimal point jumps around and when using > rounding, if a number is rounded to zero at the last decimal place of > rounding, it gets dropped off, even using a monospaced font can't save this > and right justification gets a bump. Also numbers with different orders of > magnitude shift the decimal point using left justification. I have a macro > that splits the number into decimal and integer to help with this. I usually > end up customising it a bit more for each new use scenario I come to. > > > > Here it is. Prob should update to use the number formatter patch but I'm > lazy. > > > > AGBookStencil is my chosen font for this macro, the numbers are > monospaced and it looks temporary but good (like anything does from a zen > perspective I guess). It seems to be in vogue at the moment with youth > oriented marketing which is entirely co-incidental, (I was doing public > stencil art in '87 using a Mac II , 15 years before Banksy, whos work I > like, had his Eureka moment ;) ) > > > > The macro can also add smoothing to the value stream to dampen a quick > value spike enough to notice it. Option of billboard or sprite outputting. > > > > You can't change the kerning in QC without rendering the glyphs you need > to images, adjust kerning with the rendering or using in cropping. > > > > Best > > Alastair > > Useful Design > > > > > > On 30 April 2010 19:12, Rick Mann <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Apr 30, 2010, at 01:35:01, Oliver Busch wrote: > > > > > Hi George, > > > > > > this is getting a bit off-topic but as a pro I couldn't resist :) > > > The problem that was described happened only with the combination of > two "1"s. > > > If you look at the kerning pairs there is clearly a difference between > regular Helvetica and Helvetica Neue. > > > Where the original Helvetica has a specific kerning pair for "1/1" and > Helvetica Neue does not. > > > Please see the two attached screen shots. > > > So obviously the letter spacing of Helvetica Neue has been optimized in > such a way that the kerning pair for "1/1" was no longer needed. > > > > > > In the end, the behaviour with the dancing "1/1" combination in "old" > Helvetica is in fact correct. > > > > Look at that. I'm not sure I fully understand, but it sounds like the > font is designed to explicitly change the spacing when there are two 1s next > to each other (I don't really know what a "kerning pair" is, but I can > hazard a guess)? > > > > What tool did you use to examine that? > > > > Is there a way to override the kerning pairs in a given circumstance, and > to do so from within a QC composition? > > > > TIA, > > Rick > > > > > > > > Best, Oli > > > > > > <Helvetica-kerning.png> > > > > > > > > > <Helvetica-Neue-kerning.png> > > > > > > > > > On 30.04.2010, at 03:03, George Toledo wrote: > > > > > >> I'm interested in this, and I don't take the note about increased > spacing in the number with Neue to mean the same thing as what we are > talking about. > > >> > > >> As Rick indicates, in any other layout program (or in the analog world > of actually setting type) I've never encountered this kind of inconsistency > of spacing with Helvetica. It has actually always been a go-to for > maintaining consistency, and nice flow. > > >> > > >> I believe there are aberrations with Neue in QC that have led me to > believe that it's better, but in fact, I tend to think that it also has > problems that are less immediately noticeable, so I would really pay close > attention if I was going to use that in anything. I will try to isolate the > problems I've seen with that and report back; I never took the time to > report them, as I had to fix these issues under quick turnaround scenarios, > and ultimately threw my hands up and used Lucida, despite the fact that the > lettering isn't as attractive and uniform. > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> George Toledo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > > > Quartzcomposer-dev mailing list ( > [email protected]) > > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > > > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/quartzcomposer-dev/rmann%40latencyzero.com > > > > > > This email sent to [email protected] > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > > Quartzcomposer-dev mailing list ([email protected] > ) > > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > > > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/quartzcomposer-dev/qc.student.au%40gmail.com > > > > This email sent to [email protected] > > > > <Value Printer (work in progress).qtz> > >
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