the currency
here seems to be whether folks consider that a questioner has made an
effort; if so, respondants seem happy to match it.
I think it is astonishing that the R list maintains such an enthusiastic
body of world-class contributors. I look at many other help lists
(commercial and open-source) and see great oceans of unanswered queries.
Hands up anyone who has time to politely answer swathes of questions already
covered elsewhere. That folks complain that they have not had a reply in 48
hours is a testament to the tremendous effort that is put in.
What I would be in favour of is another list: R-complaints! Here folks with
bruised egos and/or higher expectations of their fellow man can pursue
threads like this one into the next millenium....
Stuart
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marwan Khawaja" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Robert Brown FM CEFAS'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:41 PM
Subject: RE: [R] Protocol for answering basic questions
Well, if you do not like the way some people answer queries, why not just
delete
the reply without reading the response.
Since we're not paying anyone for answering questions, we should be grateful
to
those who put their time in replying to our basic questions.
And why join this community? -- if you think most are 'conceptually na�ve'!
Marwan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Brown FM CEFAS
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 6:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [R] Protocol for answering basic questions
I have been following the discussions on 'Reasons not to
answer very basic questions in a straightforward way' with
interest as someone who is also new to R and has had similar
experiences. As such it with sadness that I note that most
seem to agree with the present approach to the responses to
basic questions. I must thank those respondants to my own
questions who have been helpful, but there are some whose
replies are in my opinion not only unhelpful but actually
rude. Indeed I've now started using Splus instead of R so as
to have access to a 'proper' support service. Indeed, the
main thing I've learned from R is a new respect for the
values of commercial software and a scepticism regarding free
software. In the end my experience of r help is that you get
what you pay for. Many of the so called socratic responses
(in this list and the wider academic community) can be seen
as simply way to avoid additional work of a complete reply.
Experienced R users don't seem to understand how difficult
the program can be to new users. Responding that the
questioner should read the 'Introduction to R' or a similar
document is like answering a question for directions to
one's house with 'Buy a map'. Most likely both such
questioners have already tried that and are asking because
that approach failed. R is a language and like all languages
it is simple to those that understand it and complex to those
who do not. Every schoolboy in Spain speaks Spanish, but I
know from experience that for most English people it is very
difficult to learn Spanish and take years of study. If I'm
asked a question from a novice of a language (be it Spanish
or R) do I reply 'consult the dictionary'. I would hope not!
I can tell repondants that whilst many of my basic questions
may seem simple it is not for lack of studying the very
sources they refer to. If only learning was so simple. I
suspect that the same is true of most question!
ers.
I speak as someone with a PhD and many years as a researcher
in my speciality as well as someone close to completing a
masters in statistics with distinction. As such I am not a
total novice and would suggest that if I'm having problems so
are many; and it is not a result of lack of study as so many
responses seem to suggest. Indeed it is revealing that
several responses suggest that they want to discourage
questions so they don't overwhelm r-help. Understandable but
not a recipe to encourage the use of R by other than experts.
The R community needs to decide of they really only want
expert statisticians users and make this clear if it is the
case. Alternatively if they are to encourage novices the
present approach is not the way to do it.
I can appreciate that many of the respondants are busy, but
if that is the case it would be better if they didn't reply
at all. I was taught many years ago that if you can't say
anything nice/useful then to say nothing at all. Something
similar could well be applied to this list. I must say that
some respondants are very helpful; and I thank them. Leave
these simple questions to such people. Indeed it seems
surprising that some exteremely experienced R users choose to
reply to these basic messages at all; and it seem it is
mostly these people who are rude. I would have thought it
might be better for them to concentrate on complex problems
more suited to their skills and interests and leave the
simple questions to more sympathetic souls.
Perhaps there is a case for two r help lists catering to
basic and advanced questions? Certainly if the R community is
serious about appealling to users outside advanced
statisticians there is a need for a change of approach in r
help and elsewhere. Russ Ackoff identified much of the
failure of management science as due to those who were
'mathematically sophisticated but conceptually naive' and
much the same could be said for many in the R community.
Finally, let me once again thank those who have responded
helpful to my queries in the past and ask them to continue in
that vein; their assistance and effort is greatly appreciated.
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