Lennart : What would the real Jesus do about homosexuals ? Matthew 11 : 20 - 24. Pretty much the same as Paul in the second half of Romans 1. Sodom and Gomorrah were cursed by God, and it will be even worse for Capernaum for the same reasons. Jesus' comments, not some sort of "interpretation." Any thought that there is moral ambiguity in the text of the NT on the issue of homosexuality says one thing only --that the clamor of popular culture is drowning out the message of the Bible. Or that the views of one's pals or the media are more important than the views of Jesus, Paul, Peter and still others. 20 books discuss the issue, 10 in each testament, 25 verses, possibly a few more where the language is a little difficult, and in all cases homosexuality is unequivocally condemned. There is no "meek and mild" about anything, not any more than when Jesus overturned the tables of the money changers he was meek and mild about it. Jesus as forgiving of anything and everything is not the Jesus of the Bible. Jesus as universally forgiving ( rather than forgiving in many cases ) is a doctrinal Jesus in which a conditional virtue, forgiveness when it should be bestowed, is replaced by a False Absolute "virtue," forgiveness in all cases, which is as bad, as faith, as what some ultra-modernists do in tossing out as much of the Bible as they feel like tossing out because they prefer Hollywood to the scriptures. Very simple, easy to understand, as clear as anything gets. As in , about homosexuality, addressed to any homosexual or advocate for homosexuals, " what part of NO don't you understand ? " Or just like the prohibition against murder, NO in all cases. There is no appeal to the crime of murder, and there is no justification for homosexuality. Modernists make valid cases about such subjects as evolution, women's role in the Church, historical facts and the like, but about nearly all moral issues they are totally wrong. But I will admit one thing, if I had not done the research and now know with empirical certainty that the science lines up virtually 1 : 1 with the Bible on the issue of homosexuality, I don't know if I would feel as certain. Still, the point is moot, I have done the research, I do feel completely certain, and anyone who takes some other view has my contempt. Billy ========================================================== In a message dated 10/12/2010 6:43:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
Hi Billy, On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:38 PM, <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > wrote: Lennart : The article you recommended brought up the subject of theology of culture. This theme has its own history, dating back to at least the 1950s. I found the following journal which may be of interest. A few selected summaries of article since its inception 5 years ago are provided to give you an idea of how it approaches issues, and what it regards as relevant. There is no summary for "My Jesus ain't your Jesus," which just might be the most relevant of all the articles, or, then again, maybe one more example of hipster Christianity. But the title does say a lot. Seems to me there are several possibilities : ( 1 ) the Jesus of the Gospels and only that Jesus ( 2 ) the Gnostic Jesus of the early Christian era, although very cognizant of the Gospels ( 3 ) the Valentinian Jesus, very Gospel centered, but allowing at least two other Gospels namely the Gospel of Truth , and Philip. This tradition is Pauline and regards Valentinus as a one-time amanuensis of Paul. ( 4 ) the Jesus of esoteric Christianity, various versions, New Age with its Aquarian Gospel, the Mormons with the BofM, etc ( 5 ) the Nestorian Jesus / Jesus as seen through Buddhist eyes or re-interpreted in the context of life in East Asia ( 6 ) the St. Thomas Jesus of India, Christ in the context of Hindu India ( 7 ) the Jesus of Thomas Jefferson, highly edited to become a Unitarian ( 8 ) Sunday School Jesus, simplified and focusing on lowest common denominator views of Christ --this is unfair to a good many Sunday School teachers, but you doubtless understand what is intended ( 9 ) devotional Jesus where prayer receives about 99% of attention, everything else 1 % ( 10 ) the scholar's Jesus, in which research receives the lion's share of attention ( 11 ) the artist's or writer's Jesus ( 12 ) the Jesus of popular culture, which can be everything from mushy poems to colorful psychedelic posters to Jesus Christ Superstar to jokes and novels and TV specials, to Hollywood movies, to blog comments............... ( 13 ) the Jewish Jesus, Christ as seen by different kinds of Jews ( 14 ) Christmas or Easter Jesus, Christ as understood by people who have no interest except twice a year ( 15 ) the Jesus of the Atheists --Christ as focus for criticisms of the Bible, religion, etc ( 16 ) the Advent Jesus, Christ envisioned by people who are focused on his return sometimes as threat, sometimes as promise, sometimes as both, sometimes as thoughts about mysteries we can only guess at ( 17 ) the married Jesus --a view held by various groups and individuals, including Dan Brown and the Mormons. Two variants, strict orthodoxy but married, or loose orthodoxy since Mary Magdalene is Very Important Some of these categories are not mutually exclusive. I have deliberate left out the Muslim view of Jesus since I regard it as nonsense which distorts the Gospels hopelessly --for very anti-Christian purposes. But by this criterion you could say that some of the other views of Jesus listed above might also have been excluded. Fair point --except that I was thinking traditional American context such that even an Atheist critique often takes place in dialogue with Christians , aka Mark Twain's paradigm of the "necessary" village Atheist as part of American culture. OK, which Jesus ? Is the only Jesus worth talking about, the Christ of the biblical Gospels ? My view : That is the "best" Jesus to talk about, the most authentic, most real to Christians, but if a theology of culture means anything then all the other versions of Jesus matter. How do they matter ??? THAT is the question, isn't it ? The only thing that comes to mind here is that there was a guy, named Jesus, that walked this earth about 2000 years ago. He's the real thing. He's the one we've got to figure out. I think Jesus influences and shapes the culture wherever he's read, talked about, doubted, cursed, or whatever. Would it be wrong to say that culture matters because people matters? I would venture to say that the "emergent vs. traditional" debate is a purely western construct. I am not sure it's of any interest to the rest of the body of believers around the world except to the degree that they have been caught up in the strictly western idea of what church is supposed to be. Fundamentalists are becoming less relevant by the day, it seems, despite the noise they make. The articles below looks interesting. I'd like to learn more about what Linda L. Belleville has to say. The "same sex challenge" is definitely THE challenge. If we figure that one out it should be uphill from there on. What would the REAL Jesus do? Interestingly enough I am heading down to a non-conference (!) about Missional Communities at Northwestern in Chicago in a few weeks. There seems to be some really good ideas and attitudes coming out of Northwestern. I am impressed. Need to learn more though. Strictly a listen and learn venture. Thanks - should keep me busy for a while! I appreciate it. I which I had more time, I really do. Good stuff. // Lennart Billy ======================================================= _Institute for the Theology of Culture | Multnomah University ..._ (http://www.multnomah.edu/programs/seminary/institute-for-the-theology-of-culture/) If it's Bible you want, then you want Multnomah! Multnomah University is a fully accredited Bible College and Biblical Seminary that offers one of the most ... _www.multnomah.edu/programs/.../institute-for-the-_ (http://www.multnomah.edu/programs/.../institute-for-the-) theology-of-culture/ - _Cached_ (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mj4YajIv6P0J:www.multnomah.edu/ programs/seminary/institute-for-the-theology-of-culture/+"theology+of+cultur e"&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us) ------------------------------------------------ Cultural Encounters Journal A Journal for the Theology of Culture ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Theology 2.0: Blogging as Theological Discourse By Benjamin Myers The Italian philosopher Giorgio Agamben recently observed: “There are no authors today who could console themselves by thinking that their work will be read in a century (by what kind of human beings?)…” The emergence of new web technologies, coupled with the formation of new online communities, raises sharply this question of “what kind of human beings” might exist a century from now. This paper analyzes the contemporary Web 2.0 environment, and explores the way in which these web technologies shape and form our interior human and spiritual landscapes. Focusing especially on the role of blogging in contemporary theology, the paper argues that theological discourse is itself rapidly changing and adapting under the impact of new technologies and new forms of human interaction (just as in earlier periods theological discourse changed under the impact of new printing technologies). The paper will suggest some possible answers to the questions: what kind of self is formed by blogging? And what kind of theology? ---------------------------- My Jesus Ain’t Your Jesus By Daniel Fan ------------------------------ The Next Evangelicalism: Freeing the Church from Western Cultural Captivity By Soong-Chan Rah With the demographic center of Christianity shifting from the continents of North America and Europe to the continents of Africa, Asia and Latin America, Dr. Soong-Chan Rah asserts that there is now a corresponding shift from a Euro-Centric American evangelicalism to a multiethnic American Christianity. While there has been a noticeable decline among the population of white evangelicals, the influx of Christian immigrants has helped to sustain and grow the American church in the ethnic minority and multiethnic communities. Despite these changes in the demographics of American Christianity, Rah argues that there is still a Western, white cultural captivity of the American evangelical church, which prevents progression towards the ‘next evangelicalism’. The power dynamic of American Christianity needs to be addressed in order move towards a more multicultural expression of the church. ------------------------------ Dining with the ‘Other’ By Domyo Sater and Matthew Farlow The essay illuminates the way in which the desire for community can and should outweigh our differences. Offering a narrative of how the desire to understand the “other” led people from both camps, Buddhist and Christian, to sit down over one table as one family for one dinnertime discussion. The discussion between the followers of Buddha and followers of Jesus sought to draw closer to one another while growing in a deeper understanding of what it means to be players upon the world’s stage. ---------------------------------- “The Scopes Trial, Fundamentalism, and the Creation of an Anti-Culture Culture: Can Evangelical Christians Transcend Their History in the Culture Wars? By _Brad Harper_ (http://new-wineskins.org/journal/about/people/bharper/) The culture wars did not begin in 2004. In many respects, the warfare can be traced back to the hostilities between liberal and conservative Christianity culminating in the Scopes Trial in 1925, which pitted the traditional understanding of the Bible against Darwinism. Historian George Marsden has claimed that one can hardly overestimate the significance of the Scopes Trial for understanding the emerging Fundamentalist psyche. Harper seeks to show how the trial’s legacy continues to shape Fundamentalist and Evangelical sub-cultures, impacting their engagement of the broader culture to this day. The essay also explores ways in which both Left and Right might move beyond isolationist and polarizing practices and attitudes, working together to find common ground to pursue shared values and build “beloved community.” ------------------------ Facts & Fictions About Homosexuality: Debunking the Socio-Biblical Myths By _Linda L. Belleville_ (http://new-wineskins.org/journal/about/people/lindalbelleville/) Transformed By Grace Of all the challenges that we face as evangelicals in today’s society, the same-sex challenge is surely one of the most daunting. In part, this is because the gay community has been meticulously implementing a 35 year-old agenda largely unknown both to the average academic and the person in the pew. Gay rights groups have their highly trained lobbyists, frequent gay awareness celebrations, widely circulating educational materials, and nationwide reconciling facilitators. Of all the myths that need debunking today, the one that poses the most urgent challenge for evangelicals is the myth that homosexuality is genetic and that change is impossible. What makes the task particularly difficult is the legitimizing presence of evangelical associations such as Evangelicals Concerned, Other Sheep and the Metropolitan Community Churches and prominent speakers such as Mel White, Ralph Blair, David Frenchak and Bill Wylie-Kellermann. The intent of this essay is provide a socio-political update, to respond to the biblical fictions that are most commonly put forward by the religious gay community and to propose effective academic and pastoral strategies and resources for tackling the same-sex challenge today. ------------------------ Clash of Cultures or Clash of Theologies? A Critique of Some Contemporary Evangelical Responses to Islam By _Daniel Brown_ (http://new-wineskins.org/journal/about/people/danielbrown/) Smith College This article describes approaches to Islam by evangelical authors after 9/11, and argues that the polemical tendencies in the writings of evangelical authors including R.C. Sproul, John MacArthur, and Don Richardson are missiologically imprudent, a distortion of history, and a betrayal of biblical theology. A responsible evangelical approach to Islam, by contrast, will take account of the presence of evil in all civilizations, the sovereignty of God over all cultures, and the doctrine of common grace. Evangelicals should disengage from the so-called “clash of civilizations” which pits Western civilization against Islamic civilization and should instead focus their efforts on theological engagement with Muslims. The article concludes by suggesting some directions that a theologically informed evangelical engagement with Islam might take. -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) > Google Group: _http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism_ (http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism) Radical Centrism website and blog: _http://RadicalCentrism.org_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/) -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: _http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism_ (http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism) Radical Centrism website and blog: _http://RadicalCentrism.org_ (http://radicalcentrism.org/) -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org
