"Why Bad Things Happen to Good People" It could be that the movie in question does all kinds of good; its intentions seem to be beyond reproach, that's for sure. But the article below makes some flaws in theology very obvious -starting with not acknowledging where the phrase "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People" comes from -a 1978 book by Rabbi Harold Kushner with the title "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" If people at the CP had bothered to read the book they would know that some of the arguments in the article are fallacious. A review of the book is provided following the CP article. There are any number of other reviews online, however, it is a book that has touched many, many lives. including -and deeply- my own. A few comments on the article: God does not do evil, Satan does. To attribute evil to God is, to say the least, theologically questionable. God may make the best out of a bad situation but that is a lot different than saying that God creates bad situations. I'd say that severe decline in acknowledgement of the existence of Satan can only contribute to Evangelical decline -which has already started even if the problem is still manageable. But the decline is real and one reason for it is Evangelical temporalizing with public opinion. Therefore, since the secular public doesn't like the concept of Satan, the reality of Satan is relegated to oblivion, if not always, usually. This is suicidal. Finally, there is a major flaw with Judeo-Chrisatian theology generally, and I think Rabbi Kushner's observation is irrefutable. Nowhere does it say that God is "all powerful," but Jews and Christians both insist that he is. Hence, this is one more example of how doctrine shapes what one reads, seeing what isn't there because "it must be there" or else the doctrine is wrong. But Satan exists and has real powers. Without real powers Satan would be a joke, a childish metaphor, and so much nonsense. Satan with powers = God with less than absolute power. You must get this right or everything else ends up in absurdities. Guess what? I fully expect disagreement on this. The disagreements can only be based on fallacies, but doctrines are at stake and as we all know, in any contest between doctrine and Bible, the Bible loses. Unless you don't have a commitment to an institutional doctrine. If there are any institutional doctrines for which this is not true please let me know, it would really be nice to be wrong to the effect that this is "always" true. Even a couple of exceptions to the rule would be reassuring. Billy ===================== Kirk Cameron On New Documentary 'Unstoppable' and Why Bad Things Happen to Good People _christianpost.com_ (http://christianpost.com)
By _Vincent Funaro_ (http://www.christianpost.com/author/vincent-funaro/) , Christian Post Reporter August 15, 2013|2:29 am People of faith often struggle with the existence of evil in this world. They also have a hard time grasping why bad things happen to innocent people. Situations where children die from cancer or entire cities being destroyed by a tornado shake up the faith of those who claim to be Christians or another religion and push skeptics further away from accepting the existence of a holy sovereign God. Actor and producer Kirk Cameron tackles these issues in his new documentary "Unstoppable." He addresses why the existence of evil is necessary and ties it all in to some of the narratives from the Old Testament and New Testament. Cameron recently spoke to The Christian Post regarding his new film and explains his discoveries on why bad things happen to bad people. CP- Could you explain the footage and images seen in the trailer to 'Unstoppable' and how it's relevant to the theme of why evil exists? KC- This tribal looking guy in the trailer is actually Adam and basically this is [a representation] of the creation of man from the dust of the Earth. If you look at the Genesis account of the creation of man and woman in the garden and Kane killing his brother and Noah and the flood, you'll see that there's tragedy all throughout the Bible story from the very beginning to the very end all the way through the crucifixion, and you wonder how in the world is a loving God part of all of this. And that ultimately is where we find the answers. By going back and looking at things like the crucifixion, the fall and the flood. We see that God is mysteriously at work in all of these tragic things to bring about the very healing, hope and restoration of the whole world. Those images in the trailer are recreations of biblical stories. CP- Towards the end of the trailer you say your faith was made stronger than ever before. Can you elaborate on that? KC- The question of where is God and why does he let bad things happen to good people is one that wrecks people's faith. If you go through the history of the world, that is one of the top five questions of all time for everybody whether you're a Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Atheist. If there is a God, where is he when children get cancer or when a Tsunami hits or when there is a school shooting. That's the kind of thing that destroys many people's faiths. But for me, going through the process of making "Unstoppable" and trying to find the answer to that question really made my faith stronger because I found that answer. And I'm going to share that answer with everyone through the film. When we look at pain and tragedy from our perspective, let's say a loved one is suffering. It can feel so overwhelming and we can't see a reason and a purpose in it. But if we get up to a 100,000 ft view and we start looking at the history of the world and how God has always used pain and suffering in history and through that has brought about so many of the greatest things in the world. Look at the crucifixion, here you have the innocent suffering of the Son of God and yet that purchases the salvation of the whole world. So what I'm saying is that when we understand the bigger picture story and we view our tragedy from heaven's balcony we have a broader context and clearer perspective on what God is up to. And we can see that it's true that good is stronger than evil, life is stronger than death, and faith is stronger than doubt. CP- When you discuss evil, you have two different kinds including circumstantial evil where things are caused by other people and then you have just the effects of living in a fallen world. One of those effects would be people that are born with a disability. How do you think those types of people could be worked into God's purpose? KC- I think God is perfect, all-powerful and has an unstoppable plan for everyone including those who love him and those who don't. We know in scripture that God works all things together for good for those who love him because he's a God of purpose and his purposes are unstoppable. Whether a person is mentally sharp or disabled, whether someone is physically handicapped or a world class athlete, whether someone has cancer and lives to be five years old, or someone in the Old Testament times that lived to be 500. God is steering all of these things to fulfill his promise that he would one day reverse the curse and make all things new. So nothing is outside of God's ability to use for his glory and for our good. Not pain, not tragedy and not death. What can separate us from the love of God? Not life, not death, nothing in the present, nothing in the future. Not angels, not demons nothing is able to stand between us and his loving plans because you can't stop them. CP- Christians sometimes start to doubt God when bad things happen for them. Do you think these doubts affect a person's salvation? KC- My pastor had a wonderful analogy that he showed my kids. He said sometimes you hold on to God by faith, but sometimes it can feel very week. [He told the kids] to come and grab his wrists. I saw my kids grip on to my pastor's forearm and when they did that my pastor held on to their forearm. So if you could picture that it would be two hands passing each other with wrists touching, each holding one another's forearm. And he said [to them] hold on real tight, that's your faith, now let your faith go weak and let go of my arm. They did and he told them you see I'm still holding onto you and my grip is strong. [He said] I'm representing God and in the times when your faith feels weak you can rest assured that I've still got a hold of you because you're my child and I love you and I am able to keep you from falling. And boy did that bring comfort to my kids and deepened their love for God and their understanding of God's faithfulness. To hold us even when our ability to hold onto him grows weak. CP- What made you switch gears from acting to producing? KC- I love to be creative and to put flesh onto the ideas that are inside of me. And there are not that many great programs that are coming out through Hollywood and I'm tired of waiting around for someone to hand me a good script so I'm going to go and produce something. CP- How do you feel about the Christian movie industry? KC- I'm really excited about what I see coming out of the Christian movie industry. There's independent films coming out all over the place. You look at movies like 'The Passion of the Christ,' the new Noah movie that's coming out with Russell Crowe in the Spring. Movies like 'Fireproof' and 'Courageous' which have done phenomenally well. It's very exciting to see a new wave of young filmmakers come out with a biblical world view. They have an understanding of the Gospel and how to tell stories. They have the technology and equipment that's so affordable that it's all beginning to look fantastic. CP- Do you have any acting roles coming up? KC- I do. I have a new film coming out next year called 'The Mercy Rule.' I'm going to be acting in that. It's a family baseball movie. CP- There were issues 'Unstoppable's' website as Facebook labeled it as spam at first. Can you elaborate on why that happened and how you were able to move past that problem? KC- For some reason, YouTube and Facebook both shut down the ability for people to watch the trailer for "Unstoppable." We don't know who was behind labeling it unsafe and abusive, but it prevented millions of people from being able to see it. So I let everyone on Facebook know that I was trying to show them the movie, but wasn't able to and so they all contacted Facebook and they fixed the problem. Facebook apologized and YouTube restored the access to the movie also. The silver lining in all of that were all the news outlets picking up on what was accomplished by the 700,000 fans on my Facebook page to get the movie reinstated. They wrote stories about it which just let more people know about this great documentary coming out called "Unstoppable." It's about faith, hope and love and why anyone would want to ban that as abusive or unsafe I have no idea. CP- You are going to premier 'Unstoppable' at a one night only live event at Liberty University. What are the advantages of doing that as you seem to have succeeded with this strategy in the past? KC- We did this very successfully with "Monumental." It was actually the largest attended event of its kind in March of last year for that film. I think what makes it exciting is that it is a live event, it's not just watching a movie in a theater. You go to a theater and you're part of something that's being experienced by thousands of people, and tens of thousands of families simultaneously all over the country. So we're going to be broadcasting live from Liberty University. 10,000 college students will be in attendance. And as part of the show, we're going to have special guests and musical artists with one being Mandisa (American Idol) and Warren Barfield who wrote the theme to 'Fireproof' called 'Love is Not a Fight' and he also wrote the theme song to 'Unstoppable.' They'll be there along with some military veterans and some special guests. What makes it exciting is that we're all there at the same time on the same night watching the same thing and we're all part of something that's happening real time and you get to see a great movie. CP- Any final words regarding your new movie 'Unstoppable.' KC- For those of us who have faith in God, it's real easy to get excited about our faith when things are going well. When we're happy, healthy, we have a job, money to put gas in the car, and our checkup at the doctor's office is all clear. But when tragedy hits and your whole world comes crashing down, that's when the questions really start. And you start doubting and you start faltering and you need God most at those times. You need to know that he's real, that he's present, that he cares and that he can help. That's why this movie is so important to me personally. I want people to have a rock solid faith. I want them to have faith that is unshakable. I want them to learn through their trials that God is developing character in you, and your confidence in him. He's developing an unshakable faith and compassion for other people. In essence, he's using these times to develop in you a heart that is just like his for other people. In the end you'll see that everything is just as it should be. ====================================== <CUFONTEXT>fr: Jackson's Gift Review of: When Bad Things Happen to Good People by Harold Kushner This is one of my favorite books on loss, and it helped me tremendously to see suffering from an entirely different perspective. The author lost his son to the disease progeria (“rapid aging”). I appreciate the fact that this author did suffer a terrible loss because when I read books on loss, I am skeptical if the author has not been touched by a tragedy like I have. The fact that this author had suffered the death of a child made me feel that he spoke from a place of sympathy and understanding. In addition, the author’s answer to the question of why bad things happen to good people is the result of years of reflection and study, and it is inspiring. In the first chapter the author examines the various theories people have come up with to try and make sense of suffering. The first one is that God gives people what they deserve, that “our misdeeds cause our misfortune.” The problem with this theory is that it “creates guilt even where there is no basis for guilt. It makes people hate God … and most disturbing of all, it does not even fit the facts.” I agree with the author wholeheartedly. No one deserves to lose a child. There is nothing any of us could possibly have done to deserve to lose our precious babies. Another theory of suffering is that God has His reasons for making this happen, and we are not in a position to understand those reasons. I bet most of us heard this very sentiment stated over and over by well-meaning individuals after our child died: “Everything in life happens for a reason” or “God has a plan and even though we don’t understand it, there must be a reason.” While it may be comforting (and convenient) for them to think that God has a plan for every single thing that happens, it angers those of us who have had undeserved pain inflicted upon us in the name of some unknown yet “divine master plan.” Here’s another closely-related theory, that God causes suffering because it is educational, it cures our faults. The problem with this theory is, “it isn’t really meant to help the sufferer or to explain his suffering. It is meant primarily to defend God, to … transform bad into good and pain into privilege.” The “words of wisdom” I heard most often from friends and family members was, “God never gives us more than we can handle.” Unfortunately, this is simply not true. There are many people who crack under the strain of suffering and lose all hope for the future. The one thing all of these theories have in common is they all “assume that God is the cause of our suffering and they try to understand why God would want us to suffer.” The author spends the rest of the book seeking an alternate explanation for suffering other than God causing it. The author finds an answer to his question of why bad things happen to good people in the Book of Job. To explain his analysis of the Book of Job would take much too long and probably put most of you to sleep, but I can summarize the conclusion he reaches. The author decides that when bad things happen to good people, it is not because God intended it or planned it. He says bad things happen (to good and bad people) because we live on earth, and earth is not a perfect place. It is not the Garden of Eden. It is a place where both good and evil exist, and therefore where both good and evil occur. And, the author says, God does not control every single thing that happens on earth. God does not sit up in Heaven picking and choosing whose mother will get cancer or whose baby will die of SIDS. These things happen because the world after sin is not within God’s complete control. After Adam and Eve sinned, the world became a place of chaos. And it is chaos that is partially responsible for suffering. The other reason for suffering is free will. God does not control every act of every person on the earth. In fact, He can’t because we have free will. And much of the suffering that occurs in this world is caused by men/women who choose to commit evil. I realize this is not the case for our SIDS babies but this point is made to support the point that God, in fact, is not in complete control of what happens on earth. He can’t be, because of sin and chaos and free will. When I first read this theory of how God is not in complete control after all, I was very disconcerted. I mean I had always actually believed those cliches about God having a reason for everything and never giving me more than I could handle. It was only after I lost my baby that I couldn’t believe that anymore. And the author says this is exactly right, it is only those who have not suffered a great tragedy who can easily believe those things. Once you have to face tremendous suffering, those explanations just don’ t make sense anymore. The good news is, if you are able to accept the fact that God is not controlling every aspect of your life, then you don’t have to be mad at Him anymore for taking your baby away from you. He didn’t. And so we can turn to Him for help. The author says, “If we can bring ourselves to acknowledge that there are some things God does not control, many good things become possible.” Those good things are that we are able to turn to God for help, we can be angry at what has happened to us without feeling that we are angry at God, and we can maintain our belief that God is our ally in every situation. The last point the author makes in the book that really changed my perspective on suffering and loss is that regardless of why you think bad things happen to good people, a critical element to healing and surviving loss is to find a way to redeem the pain. “Pain makes some people bitter and envious. It makes others sensitive and compassionate. It is the result, not the cause, of pain that makes some experiences of pain meaningful and others empty and destructive.” To redeem pain, we must move beyond the question of “why did this happen?” and find an answer to the question “what can I do now that is has happened?” Some people find an answer by going out into the community and helping others through church or volunteer activities. Some people commit themselves to being a better parent to surviving or subsequent children, to being a more loving and understanding spouse, to being a more compassionate friend. There are as many ways to respond to pain as there are people who suffer it. Everyone has to find his/her own way. The critical factor is to choose a path that results not in bitterness and hopelessness but in healing and hope and love. -- -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
