Ernie: There is a scene in the Gospels where Jesus throws the money changers out of the temple.
The action described in the story features violence and anger on Jesus' part. What determined heresy as far as early Christians were concerned was whether someone believed in all of christian faith, in all of the scriptures then available, or was highly selective and only accepted some of the Christian message. Granted, by that standard I am a heretic. However, it would be nice if you admitted that a charge of heresy is also appropriate for pietists who only accept the view that Jesus necessarily and in all cases was non-violent and always, with no exceptions, regarded forgiveness as the optimal response to a wrong. Yes, there is a Sunday School version of Christ as "gentle Jesus, meek and mild." But I find that characterization as a rather large distortion of the contents of the Gospels. At that, what is so meek and mild about the two verses in the Sermon on the Mount in which Jesus condemns sinners to Hell for all eternity? The point in all of this is that Jesus was multi-dimensional. Yes, sometimes forgiveness is just what the doctor ordered. But always, in all cases? Any such view is a travesty of Christian faith. What about Amos? What about his anger about injustice in the world? What about the Apostle Paul saying that sodomites deserve death for their heinous values and behavior? Dragging forgiveness into each and every situation is not Biblical Christian faith it is a modern era heresy, maybe it also is an historical heresy as well, in any event it is a heresy. And not a heresy that I identify with. Ecclesiastes is altogether relevant. There is a time for love and a time for hate. Hate is not a sin when the object of that hatred is injustice, criminality, outrage or other terrible wrongs. Sometimes forgiveness is the worst possible reaction to something and sometimes it shows nothing so much as spinelessness and unwillingness to take a stand against evil. "Why can't we all just get along?" is not the crux of the Gospel. And forgiveness is not a universal solvent valid in all circumstances. Finally, what about all the people who look to you -or me, or Chris, or anyone else- for support or leadership or help or anything else? Who exactly are you (or me, etc) to forgive serious damages done to the self when, in the process, there are damages done to one's friends of family, to one's spouse or children? It is a cop out to say that God will take care of any punishments needed. It is an abdication of responsibility. I admit that, yes, my reading of the NT is selective and, as such, is heretical. But I always try to be comprehensive, to take everything necessary into account. This means that I do NOT forgive Jack the Ripper. I do not forgive Hitler. I do not forgive Lee Harvey Oswald. I do not forgive someone who lies about me maliciously and wrecks my life and, in the process, damages the lives of people I care about and love. But, as I see it, you are satisfied that all problems are solved by forgiveness. Pardon me, but in my estimation, that viewpoint is ridiculous. And it takes one dimension of Christian faith and elevates it above all other dimensions of Christian faith, in doing so turning that faith into a one-dimensional version of that faith. I do not see where that course of action is justified. I have my heresy, which I admit. You have yours which you do not admit. My humble opinion Billy ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Centroids <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 7:12 AM To: [email protected] Subject: kavanaugh Re: [RC] Election 2018 -commentary Hi Billy, When someone's reaction to bad news is sadness when it should have been anger, when it should have been motivation to stand up and fight for what is right, then something is very wrong with that person's value system. Are you equating reaction and response? Of course the natural reaction is anger. But I have learned the hard way that I need to process the hunger to figure out the optimal response. Kavanaugh was a model of the exact right reaction to false accusations. He would bewithin his rights, if you ask me, to seek legal redress against Mrs. Blasie Fordwith the intention of causing maximum damage to her reputation such that she can no longer serve as a teacher at any level and has zero chance of ever becoming a public person in any capacity in the future. Interesting. There’s certainly a case to be made that revenge serve the public good. So I take it you don’t really buy the idea that if we forgive our enemies, we can trust that God will mete out to them the punishment they deserve? Or that it is possible to forgive someone, but still take rational steps to limit the damage of their actions? 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