Cliff, Robert lives in Tokyo but just loves us too damn much to not get involved.
On May 4, 10:17 pm, Clifford Heath <[email protected]> wrote: > Robert, > > Thanks for your thoughts... but... > > Can I ask that we please leave the debate until the night? > It seems kinda pointless to have a great debate on a subject > we've become tired of, and where everyone already knows > what everyone else thinks... > > Clifford Heath. > > On 04/05/2010, at 10:10 PM, Robert Gravina wrote: > > > > > > >> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:45 PM, Gareth Townsend <[email protected] > >> > wrote: > >>> For a less Ranty topic maybe something along the lines of: > >>> "Testing is the hardest part of development" > > > Actually this I tend to agree with this, but not so much because it's > > hard but because it's hard to do it well. Here's the most common > > objection I get to writing tests: > > > "So I wrote the code in 15 mins and tried it out and it works but now > > I have to spend 30 mins writing tests... what was the point of all > > this again?" > > > OK, most of you are probably throwing things at your screens right now > > but I've heard that before and experienced the fustration when I was > > very new to rspec et al. Yes, when you test first and you're fluent in > > rspec and your chosen mocking framework you can write the tests and > > the code in 20 mins flat, but until you get there... there's not as > > much of a (buzzword alert) ROI on automated tests (sorry!). So, how do > > you get yourself/your teammates to perservere with the learning curve > > until you reach that zen/enlightenment stage of testing? We all know > > it's worth it, and sure there's the "you must eat your all your > > vegetables before you can have any desert" approach (i.e. complain > > loudly on the bugtracker), but unless you get (another buzzword) > > buy-in from teammates/management it doesn't work so well.. > > > I think I'm rambling now but I think (at least for me) what makes > > testing hard is not testing itself, it's testing *productively* and > > *getting new-to-testing developers who don't know (beyond the testing > > mantra) why they should bother to test* which is most difficult. > > > Anyway, I can't actually attend any roro meetings/debates so feel free > > to ignore me :) Also, compared to this audience I'm a relatively young > > pup in the ruby world, so please feel free to turn your nose up at my > > naive ramblings... but I felt like adding my 2c. > > > Robert > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] > > . > > For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en > > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby or Rails Oceania" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rails-oceania?hl=en.
