G'day Alastair and Javier,

What I am about to suggest is not what you asked for but may
open up some doors for you.

What I wanted was a way to give users almost point and click
simplicity of use with the power of the in-built R:BASE WHERE
builder across multiple tables.

For novice SQLers the in-built R:BASE WHERE builder has the
disadvantages of:

1. needing to know how to properly construct SQL syntax,
2. having no on-screen definition of what the symbols mean,
3. having no samples available of how to correctly enter data,
4. needing to know the table structure and how to code
   sub-selects in order to do a cross table query.

I already had extensive CHOOSE options so users could do the
more common cross table queries but not "Give me all the people
coded as top prospects in one state who have purchased a widget
in the last x months".   That requires a query across Persons,
Addresses, TranHeader, TranDetail and ProductsServices.   Most
of my users wouldn't even know that let alone how to create
such a query.

So I called my simple CHOOSE menus a "Simple Sifter" and built
what I call a "Super Sifter".   This allows a user to:
1. select a table (persons or organisations,
2. select the first column on which to sift the data,
3. and enter the selection parameters (on a screen similar to
   the WHERE builder but with explanations and sample data and
   buttons to go to further help)
4. select the operator,
5. select whether to proceed from there to another linked table
   and repeat steps 2 to 5.

At each pass it displays the SQL command it is progressively
building.   It correctly builds sub-selects based on the table
relationships and as well as being a query builder is also
effectively an SQL tutor.

Once finished the user has the ability to save the result and
name the query for later retrieval and use.

'Cos I didn't figure out how to do it dynamically I built 3
forms.   The table relationships and SQL display screen is
custom to BizMan but the WHERE builder type screen, and the
record selection options are generic.

If you want more mass on the theory above then download the
BizMan demo from our web site and plagiarize what you will.

From the Main Menu go to:
[Contact Manager\Persons\Browse those where...]

At 16:03 10/11/02 +0000, you wrote:
Thank goodness I'm not alone in my thoughts - I had the impression, rightly
or wrongly, from RBTI that my view was unique.

Perhaps, if there are others out there as well who feel the same way they
would like to say so and then maybe v7 for Windows will have the "missing"
features from Dos v6.0. Maybe it has already - if so, please tell me and
I'll be even less happy to have to wait for the new version. (That's a
back-handed compliment.)

I made a mistake on one of the recent betas and had some sort of time-warp
where I tried again to get the "save layout" corrected - yes, Razzak & RBTI,
it was genuine mistake on my part and I'm sorry to have mis-led you. My mind
must have flipped back a year or so for some reason but the problem is still
there as far as I'm concerned.

I used to be able to bring up results for ad hoc queries for my old bosses
in seconds flat with the Dos version. I wouldn't even try it now in Windows
as it would make me look slow and stupid.

Things like this were easy:

Boss: let me see the results.   /   Me: ok. [a couple of keystrokes]
Boss: can you put the sales next to the salesperson?   /   Me: Of course  [a
couple of keystrokes]
Boss: Now just this year's   /   Me: ok. [a couple of keystrokes]
Boss: But don't include home sales   /   Me: ok. [a couple of keystrokes]
Boss: Now cut out inter-company sales   /   Me: ok. [a couple of keystrokes]
Boss: Now let's see the year before   /   Me: ok. [a couple of keystrokes]
Boss: Can you sort them by salesperson for each country?   /   Me: Sure. [a
couple of keystrokes]
Boss: What about next year?   /   Me: Might take a while, sir, but I could
concoct something if you want. How about 5% on the average of the last 3
years?
Boss: Make it 10%...   /   Me: You're the boss. I'll need a few more minutes
to do this one...

Now you'd have to keep going back to the QBE screen, fiddle about with the
where clause, re-display the result, move the layout back to how it's needed
after every change - a nightmare, really.

If anybody has found an easy way please let me know!!

Regards,
Alastair


----- Original Message -----
From: "Javier Valencia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: Views and Layout


Alastair and Claudine:
I concur wholly with your evaluation. The query functionality that we had in
DOS is not in available in Windows. There is no simple way, from within an
application, to switch from the browser screen to the query screen like you
could in DOS (CTRL F3). In Windows, you have to build your query and once
you execute the command, there is no way to get back to the QUERY screen to
make changes such as add (or subtract) tables and/or columns, create new
links or change the selection criteria. I always thought that this was one
of the best features of R:Base, as it gave the user unlimited multi-table
query capabilities from within an application, this in addition to the
problems that you pointed out. Mike Willochell  at RBTI came up with a
kludged workaround, but is too complicated to put in an application.
The other command that I used extensively in DOS was the PROMPT command;
with this command you could simplify programming dramatically, it is too bad
that it is not available in Windows. If nothing else, it was an great
teaching aid when training new users.
Last but definitely not least, unless you want to use Adobe Distiller, there
is no way to store the results of a standard report to a file as you loose
all formatting; luckily, we will be getting this capability back in 7.0
Again, RBTI as done an excellent job in trying to accommodate all users
requests, and, who knows, maybe 7.0 will give us this functionality back.
All things considered, I believe that switching to Windows was the right
decision, since the upgrade to 7.0 should be (hopefully) a snap.

Javier Valencia, PE
President
Valencia Technology Group, L.L.C.
14315 S. Twilight Ln., Suite #14
Olathe, KS  66062-4571
(913)829-0888
(913)649-2904 FAX

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-rbase-l@;sonetmail.com]On
Behalf Of Alastair Burr
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 4:15 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Views and Layout

Claudine,

Convert - yes, definitely! But I thought that everything in DOS was supposed
to available in Windows - that's partly what sold me and it's not true.

That's NOT to say that RBWin is no good - there is a lot going for it and,
on balance, I'd go for RBWin every time but I do miss the DOS browser, its
simplicity and its ability to do what it says it does.

I don't know if v7 will fix it but at the moment the screen layout is not
saved properly and you can't - at least, I haven't found the way - to build
a query like you could in DOS - it can be done but it's more complicated or
involved. RBTI say that it works as it's meant to but my argument is that
what it's meant to do is wrong (different) and not as good as it was in
DOS!! But, as you see, there are ways around...

Set soapbox off - for a while <g> and I'll try to stop swearing, I promise!
Regards,
Alastair.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudine Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 2:00 PM
Subject: RE: Views and Layout


Alastair, thanks for opening my eyes to the simplicity of the answer.  One
SELECT to create all the fields in the view, one BROWSE field-w to put them
on the screen.  Sorta like the Texas two-step.  It works like a charm.  I'll
still submit it to RDCC as an improvement to the view creation SELECT.  Et
plus de jurons en francais! (no more swearing in French).  Going back to
DOS?, I thought you were a convert to 7.0 like the rest of us <g>...
~Claudine :)

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-rbase-l@;sonetmail.com] On
Behalf Of Alastair Burr
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 2:52 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Views and Layout

Claudine,

You might try going back to the DOS version because the Windows
browser/editor isn't a patch on the older one.

I've been trying for well over a year - ever since I upgraded to RBWIN - to
get the missing functionality in the Windows browser that the DOS one had
but swearing in English, pounding my head on the desk, or anything else has
failed miserably.

That said, can you not try something like this:

browse col1=1=10, col2=1=20, col3=1=30 from tablename where idnum in (select
idnum from yourview)

I hope that you have more luck than I've had,
Regards,
Alastair.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudine Robbins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 10:34 PM
Subject: Views and Layout


I have created a view which would fit perfectly in my browser screen if I
was allowed to specify the width of each column as in a normal select
(SELECT field1=10, field2=40, etc...).  Using LAYOUT on, and formatting the
browser columns apparently only works with tables (and then only when all
fields in the table are included, although they can be squeezed to appear
gone).  Changing the default browser font, functions such as CTR and STRIM
and pounding my hand on the desk while cussing in French don't work either!
If no one else knows of a workaround, I think I'll submit this to RDCC as a
desirable improvement in the next release. ~Claudine ☺

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