Switch to black Kool Stops. Less grabby and less squeal. On Sunday, June 5, 2016 at 3:50:36 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: > > I don't use centerpulls, cantilevers, or V brakes, and the only rim brakes > I have are high quality, cold forged single pivot sidepulls (wait -- the > very possibly not-cold-forged cheap Tektros on the Dahon are dual pivot) -- > anyway, about squeal: For the last 2 or 3 years the single pivot fronts on > both road bikes, both with Matthauser or Kool Stop salmon pads, start > squealing when the temperatures drop down toward 40*F. Sanding the pads, > cleaning the rims and pads with alcohol, don't stop it. > > When the temperature rises once again, the squeal goes away. > > The rims in both cases were or are* old Sun semi aeros: M14A and 571 > ME14A, the only difference being, as far as I can see, that the MEs have > eyelets while the M's don't. > > Any ideas? > > * This query may be moot or at least academic, in that earlier this year, > after the cold months, I had the 650C ME14As rebuilt with 559 M14As, so I > could use the Compass Elk Passes. But the point remains, that these rims > are almost identical. > > Patrick Moore, who does get squeal also with his BB7s, but only after the > discs and pads get thoroughly dusty, in hot and dry and dusty ABQ, NM > > On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Steve Palincsar <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> I can virtually induce squeal on demand on four of my bikes. All I need >> to do is let my hands get a little dirty or greasy and then touch the rims, >> or get a stray drop of T9 on the rim while lubricating the chain. Two of >> those are centerpulls, one RAID and one Paul Racer; the other two are >> cantilever, one classic long arm XT, the other Avid Shorty 4. The >> field-expedient cure in all cases is to squirt some water on the pads and >> the rims, and then ride for a bit with the brakes on hard. This wipes the >> schmutz off the rims. >> >> I've tried that on other people's bikes, too: stopped once to take a >> break on the little bridge next to the Eisenhower farm up in Gettysburg one >> time and along comes this guy on a rusty old touring bike, brakes squealing >> like banshees loosed upon the world, and I stopped him and said for God's >> sake let me try to quiet that heeeedious shrieking. A couple of squirts, >> rode once down the length of the bridge, and blissful peace and quiet. So >> it's not just mine that respond to this. >> >> The comment re: precise location of the braze-on posts is a restatement >> of something Jan said in a discussion of the Compass brakes, and why there >> is no toe-in adjustment, to the effect that the builder should set the >> location of the pad correctly by proper and perfect placement of the posts >> while brazing them on. Can't recall where this was, probably on the iBOB >> list but possibly here or in the blog, time frame certainly within the past >> 30-45 days. Don't have time to hunt for it now. >> >> If I had to do it again, I'd get brazed-on centerpulls on my MAP. That >> wasn't on offer when I got it, although evidently a couple of people that >> year pleaded and begged and talked Mitch into doing it for their bikes; >> subsequently it became a standard feature. I'm not sure if I'd have done >> it then had I known, because I had the canti brakes, take-offs from my >> Saluki, along with the wheels and the entire drivetrain, and at that moment >> I felt as though I had to put a cap on the cost of the bike. Today, I'd >> just go for it and let the (financial) chips fall where they may. >> >> >> >> On 06/05/2016 12:45 PM, William deRosset wrote: >> >> re: squeal on brazed-on centerpulls: >> >> Dear Steve, >> >> In my experience, it is related to the amount of slop in the pivot and >> how much toe-in is required to offset that slop. Misalignment of the brakes >> make setup harder, too. >> >> The MAFAC brakes had a lot of play in their pivots--the plastic bushings >> were worse than the brass ones given the deformation under load, but harder >> to set up given that you have to offset the extra deformation when toeing >> the brakes in. >> >> Once toed-in appropriately they all seem to play well. My Alex Singer was >> toed-in by the builder, and never made a peep; my René Herse brakes howled >> until I (who assembled the bike) took a crescent wrench to the arms. My >> brother's Kelpie (Dia-Compe 610s) required no modification at all to be >> silent. >> >> The Paul brakes have a fair bit of play in their adjustable pivots, and >> required an exaggerated toe-in to (mostly) eliminate it. The sticky Salmon >> pads don't help (but improve ultimate braking capacity). >> >> The Compass brakes have less play in the pivots than do any of the MAFAC, >> Paul, or Dia-Compe/Weinmann brakes I've had to mess with, and, assuming the >> pivots are properly brazed (the tolerances are tight for brazed-on >> centerpulls vs a cantilever brake), they don't squeal. The two Boulder >> Bicycle centerpull setups with which I've been directly involved were >> silent out of the box, but neither required any work to get the pads >> parallel to the rim under hard braking, either. Toe-in adjustments on any >> of the historical/repro brakes is a hassle--filing the mounting washers or >> cold-setting the arms--but results in a quiet brake, eventually. I am on >> the fence whether it is worth it vs a properly set up cantilever. For >> short- and medium-reach systems, they're a (big) improvement. For the long >> reach brakes, brazed-on centerpulls are better than their dual-pivot >> competition, but vs a cantilever? It is a hard call. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Will >> >> William M. deRosset >> Fort Collins, CO >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Will >> >> >> On Friday, June 3, 2016 at 7:54:54 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 06/03/2016 09:40 PM, ted wrote: >>> > Tim, >>> > Just thought you may want to look into the options, not recommending a >>> choice. >>> > The Paul and compass pads/holders are not interchangeable, the slots >>> in the brake arms are oriented differently. Look at pictures of the Paul >>> racer m model to see the difference more clearly. >>> >>> Compass / Raids use what we now know as the smooth-post cantilever pad >>> (Mafac originated that design and everybody else copied it) while the >>> Paul Racers use the thinline threaded V-brake style pad. >>> >>> >>> > Regarding squeal I've read conflicting reports on the raid/compass >>> brakes. Some say some say they have lots, others say not a problem. >>> > I believe both the Paul and compass brakes have their adherents. >>> >>> Precise location of brazed-on posts can have a lot to do with whether >>> the Compass/Raid squeals or not. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. > By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. > Other professional writing services. > http://www.resumespecialties.com/ > www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten > ************************************************************************** > ************** > *The point which is the pivot of the norm is the motionless center of a > circumference on the contours of which all conditions, distinctions, and > individualities revolve. *Chuang Tzu > > *Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the > world revolves.) *Carthusian motto > > *It is *we *who change; *He* remains the same.* Eckhart > > *Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle > > >
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