I would NEVER post such data on the website or in any other public place! Ignorance is bliss! TCO is simply a non-issue to 98% of riders. The 2% who worry (justifiably, of course) about TCO will ask the necessary questions. No sense placing doubt in the minds of the other 98%. No better way to choke off sales than by introducing an extra variable that few will understand.
On Feb 4, 7:02 pm, Rene Valbuena <valbu...@ix.netcom.com> wrote: > without being facetious, but wanting to pursue the proposal to the point of > absurdity, we can limit the number of variables jim pointed out to only those > which can be measured. let us not use the size of the shoes or even the angle > of the foot when pedalling or heeling the pedal. so as not to have so many > un-measureable variables -- we just use the two sizes of metal toe clip: > medium and large; two lengths of Sugino crankarm: 170mm and 175mm; and the > depth of the MKS touring pedal as a constant. all these components are > readily available from RBW. the use of actual metal toe-clips is actually > more appropriate, if i might say so. > > with these measureable combinations of variables, we then plot our findings > according to the following table which we can call MATRIX OF TCO OF RBW > BICYCLE MODELS: For example, if an A. Homer Hilsen size 57 has TCO with the > use of 170mm crankarm and large metal toe-clip, we put an "x" under the colum > "Large Toe-Clip Size" across A. Homer Hilsen 57. > > Model Size / crank length /Toe-Clip Size 170mm Medium Large 175mm > Medium Large > Roadeo 51 > Roadeo 53 > Roadeo 55 > Roadeo 57 > Roadeo 59 > Roadeo 61 > Roadeo 63 X > A. Homer Hilsen 57 > > A. Homer Hilsen 59 > > A. Homer Hilsen 61 > > A. Homer Hilsen 63 > > A. Homer Hilsen 65 > > A. Homer Hilsen 67 > > A. Homer Hilsen 72 > > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: CycloFiend <cyclofi...@earthlink.net> > >Sent: Feb 4, 2010 3:18 PM > >To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > >Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: TCO in general.. > > >on 2/4/10 8:28 AM, Rene at valbu...@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > >> TCO is a problem to me which I have learned to live with with all the > >> Rivendell models I have owned. But this does not leave me less > >> sensitive to GP's choice of words on this matter either. I hope > >> Rivendell Bicycle Works will put out a chart or a table indicating at > >> what size(s) among their models is TCO not going to be "a problem" > >> even with a size 12 feet or shoes. Or even a smaller size if 12 is a > >> bigger average. Some may tell me that I should tell this directly to > >> RBW. But I thought since GP started this subject on this forum, I can > >> propose it here. > > >I think GP's post was a new thread to comment about a previous thread. > >Nevertheless, I do want to remind folks that if they want to communicate > >with Rivendell on any subject, the best way if directly. (Or cc them on the > >email with a note explaining why.) This list is an "off-site" get together. > > >Back on this subject, to paraphrase and engage in conjecture, I think Rene's > >post above gets at the crux of the issue - the significant number of > >variables in what seems a simple question. > > >A frame that has no TCO for a rider with size 10 feet may cause problems if > >you are a size 12. If I use a clip-in pedal system, with cleats under the > >ball of my feet, that's going to be different than if I use platforms and > >pedal with a mid-foot-centered position. Large soled shoes? Fitted shoes? > >Do I make low course corrections more with body english or tiller input? > > >Clearly, for those folks to whom this is an issue, there must be a way to > >quantify it. > > >You could probably measure the BB to front axle distance, and see if there > >was a consistency in what size caused the issue. The variables would be > >wheel size, tire size, fender standoff (gap from tire), fender thickness, > >shoe size (literally, the materal thickness at the toe), foot position with > >relation to pedal spindle (i.e. how much "meat" is in front of the spindle, > >though you can really just combine those two variables into one), and crank > >length. But, all of those would run on the basic dimension of bb to front > >axle. > > >So, I get all charged up and measure this out on the Quickbeam, a 58 cm > >frame which seems to have about a 610 mm bb-front axle measurement. The > >distance from the axle to the outside of the fender is 362 mm, the cranks > >are 170 mm and the "foot protrusion" is 100 mm. Which would mean that the > >overlap is ~22 mm. > > >Except it isn't. I don't have any issues on that bike. > > >And then it dawns on me that the whole thing has a 2nd dimension which > >involves (a) the arc of the front wheel and (b) the offset of foot position > >from the centerline of the bike (determined by bb spindle length, crank > >"tread" width, length of pedal spindles, and the inboard/outboard position > >of the foot on the pedal itself.) > > >So, if I pedal with toes pointed in, using a narrow Q crankset on the > >shortest possible bb spindle, it's going to be different than toes out, wide > >cranks and longer bb spindle. > > >And that, my friends, gets quickly beyond any math I can quickly do in my > >head on a lunch break. > > >Dang. > > >- Jim "humbled by numbers once again..." > > >-- > >Jim Edgar > >cyclofi...@earthlink.net > > >"One Cog - Zero Excuses" L/S T-shirt - Now available > >http://www.cyclofiend.com/stuff > > >Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com > >Current Classics - Cross Bikes > >Singlespeed - Working Bikes > > >Send In Your Photos! - Here's how:http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines > > >-- > >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >"RBW Owners Bunch" group. > >To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > >For more options, visit this group > >athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
