I found this thread very helpful. Thanks Jason for asking. I have wondered 
the same thing. The input from both Toshi and Luis have helped me to a 
better understanding of the differences in ride qualities.

I'm also curious about how and when the long stay trend began. Is there 
blog entry? I remember something about a Surly Big Dummy used for cargo 
runs about the time some experimental builds.
Cheers,
Mark

On Friday, November 15, 2019 at 10:50:01 AM UTC-5, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> Hi all, I apologize if this has been discussed to death already but I 
> couldn't find this specific topic discussed by searching. 
>
> I am curious if anyone here has riding experience with both the new 
> geometry Homer's and the old Waterford version, as they are extremely 
> different looking bikes! I can buy into the notion that most people ride 
> bikes with too-short chainstays, but I have to admit, I cannot fathom 
> wanting to ride a bike with 475mm stays for sporty purposes.  I was very 
> excited to see the price come down, but the new geometry was a deal-breaker 
> for me.  I adore the original Homer, at least on paper (and on screen) but 
> the new version just does not 'look' sporty at all - but I fully realize 
> you can't tell how it rides by staring at it!
>
> My thought was it's an artifact of Grant's changing priorities as he gets 
> older, which is completely valid, but I'm not ready to go there yet (still 
> in my 30's, so hanging onto sportier geometry!).  As such, I bought one of 
> the final Sam Hillbornes because I viewed it as the last of that generation 
> of Rivendell, the generation that I identify with.  
>
> Maybe one day I'll find a 52cm Homer with the old geometry, but I am 
> really hoping there is a new model coming out in the coming years that will 
> fill the gap between the new Homer and the 700c road models. It feels like 
> a pretty big gap to me! 
>
> Photo of my Sam attached for viewing pleasure.  
>

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