Eddie, your initial post asking " how does shorter or longer stem effect steering?" has generated a a lot of interesting discussion about steering dynamics - but it seems that what you really want to get at is which size Roadini will work best for you with upright bars.
You might start by taking a look at the geo for the 54 & 57 Roadinis and comparing them both to the diagram of your current bike. (try the link to Bike Insights I've pasted below). My suggestion is that the larger frame will better lend itself to a more upright riding position by virtue of its taller stack and shorter effective TT. Both of the Roadinis have a longer wheelbase, slacker ST & HT angles, and more neutral trail than your current ride. I think you would discover that either of them provide a more stable feeling front end than your current bike (which looks like it has maybe been pushed a bit beyond its design intent). Ultimately I agree with the suggestion that if you are looking for a bike that handles well with an upright position that you should consider a frame set intentionally designed for that style of riding.. https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5bb29e327581960016665a31,5bb29e327581960016665a32, On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 8:58:13 AM UTC-4 eddietheflay wrote: > Doug, my guess is that headtube angle and trail on the Clem probably adds > to steadier steering. Riv does not seem to publish trail numbers but as I > understand it trail is key to steering characteristics. > > On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 5:47:46 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote: > >> I do wonder if the long wheelbase makes my Clem more stable in general. I >> hope you find the right setup for your bike. >> Doug >> >> On Mon, Sep 11, 2023 at 8:41 AM eddietheflay <eddiet...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello Doug, I have been riding Billie bars on three bikes for nearly two >>> years. I can do just fine but still notice I am less steady when my hands >>> are on the grips while descending at speed. Could be that I am so upright >>> that my center of gravity compared to drop bars is making things a less >>> steady. >>> >>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 5:38:47 AM UTC-7 eddietheflay wrote: >>> >>>> I have never tried really high-mounted drop bars like these ones: >>>> http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2010/05/drop-bar-diaries.html >>>> And for me that would be mostly about the aesthetics. Swept back bars >>>> look cooler and less weird that high-mounted drop bars. I wonder if the >>>> steering would "seem" significantly less twitchy and if for me it would >>>> require a smaller frame with shorter top tube? >>>> Here are photos of my current twitchy setup: >>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Nn7Pzb61yBhXaKCE6 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 5:26:34 AM UTC-7 eddietheflay wrote: >>>> >>>>> I need my bars quite high cuz I'm old and my neck aches badly when my >>>>> head is hanging over drop bars. I have considered tall stem and drop >>>>> bars. >>>>> I guess that would mean shorter top-tubed bike in order to make the reach >>>>> to the hoods on drop bars comfortable. >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, September 11, 2023 at 5:17:39 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> More specifically Eddie, I don't think using a bar like the Billie on >>>>>> a Roadini is a good idea to begin with if you find yourself wanting to >>>>>> move >>>>>> forward for a more stable steering experience. You be much better of >>>>>> with a >>>>>> shallow drop bar. Personally, I don't think having high bars lives up >>>>>> to >>>>>> the purported benefits often espoused by Will or Grant and all that ride >>>>>> them. I found just the opposite myself..... it's like wanting to get >>>>>> from >>>>>> Dallas to Atlanta via Seattle. .... "your're going the wrong way !". >>>>>> Bikes >>>>>> simply handle wonderfully with your body weight forward and hands >>>>>> forward >>>>>> of the steering axis. I get that GP designs his "upright" bikes to >>>>>> maximize >>>>>> the "high, back and upright" position in terms of stability, but to me >>>>>> all >>>>>> the compensating in the world for being so far back of the steering axis >>>>>> will ever eliminate that "twitchy, tiller effect". That said lots of >>>>>> people >>>>>> ride them and love them and rightly so. I'm coming from a place where I >>>>>> simply don't relate to that in a positive way. It's a matter of taste, >>>>>> and >>>>>> we all have an affinity for what we have an affinity for. I can't stand >>>>>> the >>>>>> Star Anise flavor for example, that many people love. While I don't >>>>>> relate >>>>>> to the flavor itself, I certainly relate to the experiencing of that >>>>>> which >>>>>> one enjoys. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think of how Rivendell frame design has so radically changed in the >>>>>> last 20 years. You could say the Clem design may have saved the company >>>>>> as >>>>>> it became so popular as the basic road bike design had seemed to become >>>>>> so >>>>>> passe', so to speak. In the seeming endless quest for something "new" to >>>>>> experience, I can see how road bike design went to ape crazy into carbon >>>>>> for lightness and disc brakes and now aerodynamics. It's making the >>>>>> bikes >>>>>> way more complex that they need to be, and making them out to be >>>>>> something >>>>>> more than they ever are. .... a means to "the ride" ! That quest for >>>>>> "newness" is ironically the source of all the woes of the world, as the >>>>>> inherent message within it is that "now isn't good enough, it's lacking >>>>>> in >>>>>> some way, so more is needed, some compensation is required in ordered to >>>>>> be >>>>>> fulfilled !". The problem with that is that is just a big fat lie. The >>>>>> compensation is never enough, no matter how much is given, more is >>>>>> always >>>>>> taken, more is demanded. More is never enough. Of course it's never >>>>>> enough, >>>>>> and that's the point. ISness can't be fulfilled or made because it isn't >>>>>> absent in any way. What a paradox ..... things that seem to appear >>>>>> missing >>>>>> aren't missing at all..... they're revealing in the Light the actuality >>>>>> of >>>>>> What IS :) How cool that is ...... Ride on. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Ru_yZU0gGBA/unsubscribe >>> . >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cf0237f2-8fdd-4f80-8d5d-2dc5f7c075e3n%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cf0237f2-8fdd-4f80-8d5d-2dc5f7c075e3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/573469f1-7e26-4b0f-a13d-904d3e85470en%40googlegroups.com.
