Regarding upright bars and shorter stems, wondering if an 8cm Dirtdrop vs. 
an 8cm 4-bolt Jim Stem would position a Choco bar in basically the same 
reach.

Thanks,
Scott

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 12:37:20 PM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Ted, very timely. I took my Saluki out the other day and yesterday my back 
> was screaming. I just turned 72 and my back has been an issue since my 
> 40’s, why I started riding Rivendells.  Today I will ride my Hillborne. To 
> make it fair I took the 48mm tires off and put 42’s on like on the Saluki. 
> Maybe the Hillborne geometry is better. Both bikes are set up the same, 2 
> differences are tires and cranks. I have a Sugino on the Hillborne and a TA 
> Zephyr on the Saluki. I got the Saluki last year to replace a Bleriot which 
> rode great and transferred all of the components. I thought the geometry 
> was similiar if not the same as the Saluki. By tomorrow morning I will know 
> how my back did. 
>
> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 10:28:17 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, September 13, 2023 at 8:41:29 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Garth, of course nothing you say here is wrong, it’s simply not the same 
>> for everyone. And I know you know that. I am a 68 year old lifetime 
>> cyclist. I’ve been through many drop bar bikes and though my last one 
>> (Custom Richard Sachs) was easily the best, I was never truly comfortable.
>>
>>
>> This is a timely topic for me. I'm about to turn 61 and, until last 
>> spring, I thought I had dialed in my perfect bike fit. Doing a fair amount 
>> of yoga starting in my 40's really helped my flexibility and core strength, 
>> so I ride with a pretty low, flat back. I use pretty deep drop bars (mostly 
>> Noodles), set the tops a bit below the saddle, and spend a lot of time on 
>> the drops. My personal cubit is how I check seat-bar distance, and the 
>> backs of my handlebar tops at the stem have always been 2-4cm ahead of my 
>> fingertips.
>>
>> When I was spec'ing out my new Sam, I spent a long time on stem length 
>> and finally decided to go shorter. This is also relevant to the previous 
>> thread, as the Sam has a much slacker seat tube angle than my other bikes, 
>> making it a bit more challenging to translate fit from the other bikes.  On 
>> the Sam, the bars are just a few mm ahead of my fingers. I was worried this 
>> would be too cramped, so it was a bit of a revelation when I found it was 
>> comfortable and still allowed plenty of breathing space. Thinking about it, 
>> I realized that it was logical that my seat-bar distance would need to 
>> shrink a bit. I have pretty severe osteoporosis and a couple of compressed 
>> vertebrae, so my torso length is shorter than it was 5 years ago. 
>>
>> So, yeah, everybody ages differently, but we all age and need to be aware 
>> of how our bodies are changing and how that impacts position and fit on the 
>> bike. 
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
>

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