My experience mirrors Johnny's. I went from using an S84 to a 25mm setback Ritchey post to now a zero setback Ritchey. I ride 150mm cranks too, midfoot position. 74" tall, proportional legs. As I see it , the more I moved forward over the BB, the more effectively I can push down and back to the rear wheel, rather than trying to push down and forward and have that energy rebound back to the rear wheel. I could feel the discrepancy being so bar back, pushing forward to push back to the rear wheel, but I could never figure out what was going on in words. But as I moved the saddle forward I found that "counter-forces" lessened and so I just kept going forward. My frame already has a long reach, 62cm c-c withe 62cm TT @72.5d STA and 72d HTA, and I went from a 110cm stem to a 130mm. I''m also using Zipp compact drop bars(70/115mm reach/drop), so I have lots more potential reach available if desired just by changing the bar. I'm doing my best to put it into words here. Yes, it may go against everything you ever thought about crank length or body position relative the BB, but just because the same theories are parroted over the internet does not make them suitable for anyone but the one who wrote it.
Riding the shorter 150mm cranks also allows me to be further forward of the BB without losing any forward reach to the bars. Placing my feet more midfoot, I don't remember exactly but I think my saddle height remained close to what it was with longer cranks. I did find this on crank length : https://biketestreviews.com/cranklength/ , it's rather long and techie, but the second part I most relate to based on my experience. It is very silly that crank length has been in large part stuck between 165-180mm. Think about the very large variance in body heights, leg lengths and feet sizes, from children to adults. Such a limited range doesn't work for everyone. Stems range from zero to 160mm. Hmmm. I've notice more of the brand name parts makers are catching on about short cranks. I know Grant knows about them as I mentioned to him once I ride 150mm cranks and he had read about 150mm being a sweet spot. I get that offering other sizes requires investment and inventory so who knows if a short Silver crank will ever arrive. I suspect if I showed up on their door with a set for them to try though, they'd certainly try them for themselves ! Plus, while I don't ride a Brooks saddle, in light of the perspective I've given it seems it's a good thing that they have short rails , for those that want to move forward. FWIW, I've moved my saddle all the way forward on my Bombadil, which still has Albatross bars on it. While the reach is too short for me wanting to go long and low, (I have a drop bar setup set to install), I found the same pealing bliss being more forward of the BB. It was like, zoom ! Pedaling feels so much more fluent and efficient, just like on my Franklin bike. So yes, you can still be upright if you want, but you'll be able to push down to the rear wheel more effectively/efficiently. Have you ever seen people ride a skid bike ? I saw some videos of this. The bikes are odd for sure, but what struck me the extreme at which they were forward of the BB. I mean extreme, like they lean over the bars and front wheel and push back to the BB with their body at a forward angle. They generate lots of power with ease that way. While we're not riding our bikes to that, it does highlight what I'm taking about, albeit it an EXTREME way ! Ahahaahahahaa ! On Sunday, January 7, 2024 at 10:42:00 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote: > Maybe try the original Nitto Moustache bar? Those have the parallel hand > position but essentially no sweep back because they go forward a lot before > coming back. Most riders who switched from drop bars to Moustache bars had > to run a shorter stem than they used with drops. That could be ideal for > stretching out a too-short cockpit for a rider that's short in the legs and > longer in the torso. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito, CA > > P.S. If you need help finding one, I've got one. > > On Sunday, January 7, 2024 at 8:07:10 AM UTC-8 J Schwartz wrote: > >> Greetings >> >> Picking up this thread I just bought a 50cm Roadini and had it built up >> for my wife (Thanks Bryan!). The goal being a faster, more roadie bike >> than she currently rides but still can hit trails. >> >> She has a very long torso and long arms but short (proportionally to her >> torso) legs... She's an 80pbh so Right in the sweet spot for a size 50. >> Initially I put Chocos on the bike on a 110mm high-rise stem ...but they >> come way back... so that probably not the right bar for the Roadini anyway. >> >> [image: Screenshot 2024-01-07 at 10.53.16 AM.png] >> Even when mocking the bike up with noodles on a 100mm stem , she felt >> scrunched up and didn't have the reach she needed. Her rear end was >> hanging off the back of the saddle. >> >> Her other bike is a Bruce Gordon BLT Taiwanese-built touring frame with >> 26" wheels >> it's got a 44cm seat tube with a 54cm top tube and a, I think, a 12º >> slope on the top tube. We've got a 13cm Nitto stem on it and Albatross >> bars ...which don't come back nearly as far as the Chocos. >> >> Currently the saddle is a Brooks B17 all the way back on the stock >> Kalloy seatpost. >> >> I'm rebuilding the cockpit with either drops or something like a >> Wavie...not sure which direction yet, but def something that doesn't come >> back too much and will use an appropriately long stem. >> >> With regards to seat-posts, I see IRD has come out with a new "Compact" >> version of their wayback stem. It extends 30mm rather than the 50mm of the >> previous way -way back version >> >> https://www.interlocracing.com/shop/ird-seatpost-wayback-compact-6972?search=wayback+compact#attr=346,4463,1073 >> and it's comes in 26.8mm >> I think this could help a lot without the extreme nature of the 50mm >> version >> >> Curious if anyone has had success with this post? >> >> Also, thinking the B17 may be the wrong saddle just bc of the short rails. >> >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 1:46:45 AM UTC-4 Austin L wrote: >> >>> I like the American Classic setback posts. Occasionally they come up in >>> 28.6. >>> >>> Another option if you have a makerspace or friend with a lathe is to >>> turn down a 27.2. >>> >>> Austin >>> >>> On Monday, April 17, 2023 at 3:22:34 PM UTC-7 Garth wrote: >>> >>>> Yes. Leah, for you to use the S-84, the lugged one with 37mm plus >>>> setback that comes only in 27.2mm size, you would need to take your bike >>>> to >>>> a bike shop who works with steel frames and has experience with reaming >>>> seat tubes. Reaming a standard 28.6mm outer diameter steel tube to take a >>>> 27.2mm post is not only easy, it's standard by most frame >>>> designers/builders. 26.8mm is not. Look for shops that have been around >>>> for >>>> a long time, and do ask about their experience. It should be a no brainer >>>> for most shops but I haven't been in a bike shop for along time. Actually >>>> when you buy a steel frame from a local dealer it is still customary at >>>> most to ream/clean out the tubes as standard part of an extensive standard >>>> prep for all new frame sales. That Riv doesn't do this, or says it's not >>>> necessary, or wants to charge extra, I don't agree with that, but of >>>> course >>>> it's not my business and they're not a bike shop either. Many Riv buyers >>>> may not know that most retail shops prep frames complimentary as part of >>>> the sale, at least the ones I was familiar with or worked at. >>>> >>>> No need to spend $200 though. I see 17 S84's for sale on ebay from >>>> Japan for $130 total w/shipping. Some spell it S84, some S-84, look for >>>> both. Or for a Japanese retail store, Tracksupermarket.com sells the 250mm >>>> version(plenty long) for $111.50 and shipping to Ohio USA is $18.50. >>>> Michigan would be the same. >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.tracksupermarket.com/nitto-tokyo-s-84-lugged-seat-post-27-2mm.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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