We might be discussing this thread to within an inch of its life, but I 
really love/appreciate how many people really like modern handlebars and 
also have felt the discomfort that results from having the bars too high!

"I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” 
effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my 
ears."

One more thing on the "turtle" thing:  What I've found it that it's often 
caused by having the saddle too far forward.  Which in turn reduces the 
ability to really hinge your pelvis when riding.  It encourages one to sit 
"on" the saddle (like on a chair), with one's back relatively vertical.  
And then of course you have to strain your shoulders forward to try to 
reach the bars (causing the turtle effect...)

Whenever I see someone turtle-ing, I move the saddle backwards and 
encourage them to use the saddle as a perch, and not as a chair.  They can 
then hinge their pelvis, which keeps their back relatively straighter while 
bringing their shoulders closer to the handlebars.

(This also enables you to get into that "pyramid" position that someone 
else mentioned.)

Elisabeth Sherwood
Washington, DC




On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 5:02:54 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 at 1:56:56 PM UTC-5 Jamie D. wrote:

 I keep trying different hand positions and they never feel quite right. I 
think the biggest physical annoyance is feeling like have to constantly 
'look up' bringing my neck out of line with my back.

Oh yeah, I hear that. Google “Shermer’s Neck” and you’ll learn plenty. In 
my experience, it is a combination of holding up the head _and_ holding up 
the eyeballs. Because my eye movement muscles got so tired, I have for a 
long time worked at keeping my head up, so I’m not rotating my eyes up to 
look up the road. But that’s been stressing my head-holding-up muscles 
more, and I’m having some trouble with the cervical-thoracic junction. 
Bringing the tops of the bars up 2-5cm, to where they are level with the 
saddle, and finding an in-between position where my head isn’t fully up and 
my eyeballs are only slightly rotated up is working well. Also, I vary that 
positioning during a ride to give all the muscles chances to rest a bit.

I think this also corresponds, as others have discussed, to the “turtle” 
effect where too long a reach is causing me to shrug my shoulders up to my 
ears. With a cm shorter stem and the higher bars, I also regularly think 
about extending my head and neck, like a turtle, and pushing my elbows in 
and shoulders down. Inevitably I find that if I’m riding at a relaxed pace, 
putting less weight into my legs and core, I creep back into bad form and 
have to consciously correct for it.

I also haven’t been doing as much yoga as I was pre-COVID, and with that my 
core strength has gone south a bit. I have been working on building some 
foundational strength in the back, shoulders, and neck this year, and I 
think that’s helping.


Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA 

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