Allan,
Ditto Ray's remarks.
John Blittersdorf
Central Vermont Solar & Wind
-----Original Message-----
From: R Ray Walters <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; RE-wrenches
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Mar 14, 2010 2:12 pm
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP website ideas
Both ideas are simple and make good sense. I think listing the number of years
certified is a strong reason I'd renew actually, otherwise what's the
difference between someone who has been certified for 6 years vs. 6 months?
R. Walters
[email protected]
Solar Engineer
On Mar 14, 2010, at 12:11 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Wrenches,
Recently I wrote to NABCEP with two requests, for changes on the website's
public information:
1. In addition to a state-by-state list of certificants, have also a
single overall alphabetized list that is not delimited by state, to allow a
quick check if an installer who claims certification actually is so.
2. I would like to see the year of initial certification available as part
of the published info on NABCEP's certificant listings. I would like to think
that this is also a good indicator of an installer's experience as the field
(of certificants) continues to get larger.
I got thoughtful responses from Ezra and Bob-O. The essence of the
back-and-forth discussion follows my signature line. But straight and to the
point: Among those of you who are NABCEP Certified PV Installers, what are your
opinions about these two ideas? Any responses and discussion will make its way
back to NABCEP - I'll see to that.
Thanks,
Allan
--
Allan Sindelar
[email protected]
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com
[Last post first; earlier posts follow]
Hi Allan,
As always it's great to "talk" with you. I want to correct a common
misunderstanding about the qualifications to sit for the NABCEP Installer Exam.
Nothing has changed with respect to experience. The person applying still needs
to have been the person responsible for two PV systems sometime over the past
two years. You are correct that some time ago we changed the wording to "some
time within the past two years" this was to indicate that difference between
two complete years of experience and two systems in the past two years (our
actual requirement).
I can assure you that the likes of Bob-O keep us all very honest when it comes
to watering down the qualifications to sit for the exam. The entire exam
committee keeps their eye on not "dumbing down" the exam. They want the new
achievers to work as hard as you and the other early adopters did.
I am not really in favour of the downloadable list because of the spam concerns
but I'll happily accede to what the "Certs" want. I'd suggest an informal poll
- RE Wrenches perhaps - trying to get some additional buy-in from Certificants.
Again that's your call.
As to the date first Certified I don't think that should be too difficult but I
hate to make promises before I speak the the folks who would actually do the
work and find out from them how difficult or time consuming the task would be.
I'm going to be in our office later this week and I'll keep you posted.
Best regards,
Ezra
Ezra Auerbach
Executive Director
[email protected]
North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP)
634 Plank Road
Clifton Park, N.Y. 12065
1 800 654 0021
1 518 670 4553 Direct
www.nabcep.org
On 2010-03-01, at 9:01 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Ezra, Bob-O, Tim, Rex,
Wow! I appreciate the dialogue that my suggestions engendered, and the fast
response.
Re the first issue, the national list: like Bob-O, I did not see spam potential
as an issue, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about spam control to advise. I
have observed that I get far fewer spam messages in my inbox than I did a few
years ago - perhaps one or two a day, versus 15-20 maybe 4 years ago, and I
haven't changed either email addresses or public visibility.
I would consider a national list to be a convenience more than a necessity. You
are all aware that I am quite protective of proper use of the logo and any
claims of certification - I have shared some of my efforts with you. But I have
seldom been hindered by having to check state lists, so it's not a big deal for
my needs - more a suggestion. Perhaps there are others for whom this would make
a bigger difference.
On the other issue, I'll offer two perspectives, closely related. As NABCEP
certification becomes widespread and necessary for so many installations, you
are most likely experiencing ongoing pressure to certify more installers. I
have already seen the qualification standards become diminished - where an
applicant once needed to lead at least two installations to qualify, now he or
she need only show "experience installing PV systems occurring at some point in
the two (2) years prior to submitting an application". And certification is
certification, by which I mean that once certified, there are no additional
"master" or "graybeard" additional levels available. So this becomes a very
simple way to identify how many years an installer has been certified to have
the highest qualification level our industry offers.
That's the objective perspective. The other is personal: I want to be
acknowledged as one of the original 44 (?) that passed the first exam. It's an
achievement I don't mind being available to those who care. And it will matter
more as the years go by. It's a very easy way to recognize the old timers. It's
also the way to recognize the people who saw enough value in the fledgling
NABCEP effort to take and pass the exam before it meant anything, and with no
idea what it would someday count for.
Bob-O, re "I think perhaps we should also consider adding the year that the
Certification expires": to me that is a separate issue, and one of not much
concern. It's one, two, or three years away - big deal. You're either valid or
expired. But if you add expiration year, then also decide whether Certificants
who are expired disappear from the list or have "expired" and the year next to
their name, but remain on the list as once having been Certified. Unimportant
to me, just bouncing around ideas here.
One more thing - I hate SurveyMonkey. It requires choosing one of the offered
answers, even if none of the choices fits. And you can't skip an unanswerable
question. Ugh!
Does this help?
Allan
Ezra Auerbach wrote: I'll wait to hear back from Allan before we make any
changes - if in doubt kick the idea around with a few other installer Certs
informally and we'll use their responses to gauge if we need a full survey.
Work for you?
Ezra
On 2010-03-01, at 8:02 AM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:
The spam thing is something I hadn't considered. Clearly a trade-off. Adding
the year of initial certification would take some work, but it's a one-time
thing. IF we do that, I think perhaps we should also consider adding the year
that the Certification expires. That would be an ongoing chore, but perhaps it
could be automated by linked spreadsheets or something.
Allan, it's your suggestion. In light of Ezra's thoughts, do you still think
alphabetizing the Certificant's names on the website has more merit than the
potential anti-spam effect? Personally, I'm not sure the anti-spam thing is
that relevant as anyone can copy and paste the current list into another
document very easily, although state by state only.
Perhaps we should put this out to our Certs for a vote? Via a survey monkey or
...?
Bob-O
On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:17 AM, Ezra Auerbach wrote:
Hi gents,
A couple of thoughts. I think we could add year of certification with undue
administrative burden-I will want to check with Tim-it will fall to him to
implement.
With respect to a list, we long ago decided against publishing a complete
listing to make it more difficult for spammers.
So, it's the Certificants call. Bob-O if you are totally good with the
potential of more list spamming it would be easy to post a list.
Tawk?
Ezra
Executive Director
NABCEP
On 2010-02-28, at 12:52 PM, Bob-O Schultze <[email protected]> wrote:
Hiya Allen and All,
Both good ideas which I think we could -and should- implement, especially the
alphabetizing.
Ezra, I think a decision like this is way within your purview. Let's talk about
it.
Bob-O
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