Hi All,
Yes on the NABCEP list ideas - both are good with me!
Best,
Jeff C.
Allan,
Ditto Ray's remarks.
John Blittersdorf
Central Vermont Solar & Wind
-----Original Message-----
From: R Ray Walters <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]; RE-wrenches
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Mar 14, 2010 2:12 pm
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP website ideas
Both ideas are simple and make good sense. I think listing the
number of years certified is a strong reason I'd renew actually,
otherwise what's the difference between someone who has been
certified for 6 years vs. 6 months?
R. Walters
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Solar Engineer
On Mar 14, 2010, at 12:11 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Wrenches,
Recently I wrote to NABCEP with two requests, for changes on the
website's public information:
1. In addition to a state-by-state list of certificants, have
also a single overall alphabetized list that is not delimited by
state, to allow a quick check if an installer who claims
certification actually is so.
2. I would like to see the year of initial certification
available as part of the published info on NABCEP's certificant
listings. I would like to think that this is also a good indicator
of an installer's experience as the field (of certificants)
continues to get larger.
I got thoughtful responses from Ezra and Bob-O. The essence of the
back-and-forth discussion follows my signature line. But straight
and to the point: Among those of you who are NABCEP Certified PV
Installers, what are your opinions about these two ideas? Any
responses and discussion will make its way back to NABCEP - I'll
see to that.
Thanks,
Allan
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Allan Sindelar
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
<http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>www.positiveenergysolar.com
[Last post first; earlier posts follow]
Hi Allan,
As always it's great to "talk" with you. I want to correct a common
misunderstanding about the qualifications to sit for the NABCEP
Installer Exam. Nothing has changed with respect to experience. The
person applying still needs to have been the person responsible for
two PV systems sometime over the past two years. You are correct
that some time ago we changed the wording to "some time within the
past two years" this was to indicate that difference between two
complete years of experience and two systems in the past two years
(our actual requirement).
I can assure you that the likes of Bob-O keep us all very honest
when it comes to watering down the qualifications to sit for the
exam. The entire exam committee keeps their eye on not "dumbing
down" the exam. They want the new achievers to work as hard as you
and the other early adopters did.
I am not really in favour of the downloadable list because of the
spam concerns but I'll happily accede to what the "Certs" want. I'd
suggest an informal poll - RE Wrenches perhaps - trying to get some
additional buy-in from Certificants. Again that's your call.
As to the date first Certified I don't think that should be too
difficult but I hate to make promises before I speak the the folks
who would actually do the work and find out from them how difficult
or time consuming the task would be. I'm going to be in our office
later this week and I'll keep you posted.
Best regards,
Ezra
Ezra Auerbach
Executive Director
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP)
634 Plank Road
Clifton Park, N.Y. 12065
1 800 654 0021
1 518 670 4553 Direct
<http://www.nabcep.org/>www.nabcep.org
On 2010-03-01, at 9:01 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
Ezra, Bob-O, Tim, Rex,
Wow! I appreciate the dialogue that my suggestions engendered, and
the fast response.
Re the first issue, the national list: like Bob-O, I did not see
spam potential as an issue, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about
spam control to advise. I have observed that I get far fewer spam
messages in my inbox than I did a few years ago - perhaps one or
two a day, versus 15-20 maybe 4 years ago, and I haven't changed
either email addresses or public visibility.
I would consider a national list to be a convenience more than a
necessity. You are all aware that I am quite protective of proper
use of the logo and any claims of certification - I have shared
some of my efforts with you. But I have seldom been hindered by
having to check state lists, so it's not a big deal for my needs -
more a suggestion. Perhaps there are others for whom this would
make a bigger difference.
On the other issue, I'll offer two perspectives, closely related.
As NABCEP certification becomes widespread and necessary for so
many installations, you are most likely experiencing ongoing
pressure to certify more installers. I have already seen the
qualification standards become diminished - where an applicant once
needed to lead at least two installations to qualify, now he or she
need only show "experience installing PV systems occurring at some
point in the two (2) years prior to submitting an application". And
certification is certification, by which I mean that once
certified, there are no additional "master" or "graybeard"
additional levels available. So this becomes a very simple way to
identify how many years an installer has been certified to have the
highest qualification level our industry offers.
That's the objective perspective. The other is personal: I want to
be acknowledged as one of the original 44 (?) that passed the first
exam. It's an achievement I don't mind being available to those who
care. And it will matter more as the years go by. It's a very easy
way to recognize the old timers. It's also the way to recognize the
people who saw enough value in the fledgling NABCEP effort to take
and pass the exam before it meant anything, and with no idea what
it would someday count for.
Bob-O, re "I think perhaps we should also consider adding the year
that the Certification expires": to me that is a separate issue,
and one of not much concern. It's one, two, or three years away -
big deal. You're either valid or expired. But if you add expiration
year, then also decide whether Certificants who are expired
disappear from the list or have "expired" and the year next to
their name, but remain on the list as once having been Certified.
Unimportant to me, just bouncing around ideas here.
One more thing - I hate SurveyMonkey. It requires choosing one of
the offered answers, even if none of the choices fits. And you
can't skip an unanswerable question. Ugh!
Does this help?
Allan
Ezra Auerbach wrote: I'll wait to hear back from Allan before we
make any changes - if in doubt kick the idea around with a few
other installer Certs informally and we'll use their responses to
gauge if we need a full survey. Work for you?
Ezra
<http://www.nabcep.org/>
On 2010-03-01, at 8:02 AM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:
The spam thing is something I hadn't considered. Clearly a
trade-off. Adding the year of initial certification would take some
work, but it's a one-time thing. IF we do that, I think perhaps we
should also consider adding the year that the Certification
expires. That would be an ongoing chore, but perhaps it could be
automated by linked spreadsheets or something.
Allan, it's your suggestion. In light of Ezra's thoughts, do you
still think alphabetizing the Certificant's names on the website
has more merit than the potential anti-spam effect? Personally, I'm
not sure the anti-spam thing is that relevant as anyone can copy
and paste the current list into another document very easily,
although state by state only.
Perhaps we should put this out to our Certs for a vote? Via a
survey monkey or ...?
Bob-O
On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:17 AM, Ezra Auerbach wrote:
Hi gents,
A couple of thoughts. I think we could add year of certification
with undue administrative burden-I will want to check with Tim-it
will fall to him to implement.
With respect to a list, we long ago decided against publishing a
complete listing to make it more difficult for spammers.
So, it's the Certificants call. Bob-O if you are totally good with
the potential of more list spamming it would be easy to post a list.
Tawk?
Ezra
Executive Director
NABCEP
On 2010-02-28, at 12:52 PM, Bob-O Schultze
<<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
wrote:
Hiya Allen and All,
Both good ideas which I think we could -and should- implement,
especially the alphabetizing.
Ezra, I think a decision like this is way within your purview.
Let's talk about it.
Bob-O
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Jeff Clearwater
Senior Design Engineer
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
http://www.nabcep.org/
Village Power Design
Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector
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