HI all; I'm forwarding my very informed customer's comments. AC output voltage appears to not be the issue. Does anybody have a particularly good contact at Outback? It should not be going into charge mode everyday. Perhaps the large battery bank is throwing things off?
R. Walters [email protected] Solar Engineer Begin forwarded message: > From: "Roger L. Johnson" <[email protected]> > Date: March 30, 2010 2:06:42 PM MDT > To: Ray Walters <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems > > Ray – I have been selling solidly at approx. 2 kW since about 1100 hours > (MDT) this morning. The output voltage (AC) is 124 VAC and steady with an > output current to KCE of 7 aac. The house load is ranging between 200-800 > watts. I expect the system will now continue to sell throughout the > remainder of the day. > > Today’s Sequence: I ran the house load off of the batteries throughout the > night (AC in DROP mode). Prior to the system beginning its morning wakeup > sequence, the battery voltage was 24.8. I then put the system on the grid (AC > in USE mode). As expected, the system came up, shut down the inverters and > quickly went into CHARGING mode. I then manually killed the BULK charging > cycle and the system went into PASS THRU mode. Then I monitored the connected > (new array) CCs and watched while both new and old arrays recharged the > batteries. As the battery voltage passed through 26 VDC the system remained > in PASS THRU mode. I then watched as the batteries passed through 27.2 VDC > (Float Level threshold) and the system still remained in PASS THRU mode. As > the battery voltage went above the FLOAT threshold for some time, the > connected CCs indicated GT MODE and soon after that the system began selling. > > What seems clear to me at this time: > > Each morning, no matter what, the system will initiate a charging cycle. It > appears to be the case that as long as the system is in the CHARGING mode, it > cannot invert for either load use or for selling back. It also appears to be > the case that there are a number of system parameters which need to meet a > specific criteria (not provided in the manuals) for the CHARGING mode to be > terminated. If these conditions are not met, the system will go through an > entire charging cycle(many hours) and may never complete the criteria before > the end of the day even though the sun has come out (or the arrays clear of > snow). This seems to be why, following snow days, the system often never gets > out of the CHARGING mode. Remember that in the ABSORB and FLOAT modes, the > CCs restrict the power coming off the arrays. Plus, these modes require > “countups” (1 hour each) to complete before terminating the CHARGING mode. > Note the statement made in the MATE manual on page 62, second paragraph from > the bottom. It speaks of “charge parameters met mode”. So it is clear that > this is not just a case of the battery voltage exceeding 26 VDC. There is > also another reference to running in grid-tie mode which indicates that the > CCs FLOAT threshold voltage should be set 0.5 volts higher than the FLOAT > threshold of the FX. On this system, they are both set to the same value, > 27.2 VDC. > > I suspect that your earlier systems were not as “interconnected” as this > system and did not have as large a battery bank. Let’s continue the > investigation. What would be very helpful is if you could extract two items > from Outback, one, being the “charge parameters” which determine the sell > criteria, and two, a detailed explanation of STOP SELL codes. There is a > cryptic list of STOP SELL reasons on the bottom of page 47 of the MATE > manual. Most of these do not make sense, for example, I cannot tell what it > means to say “R60 off” or “save command”. Another question, if a STOP SELL is > executed by the MATE, do you have to wait until the next midnight for this to > be cleared? In other words, can the system lock itself out of SELL mode for > the rest of the day? > > RLJ > Taos home: 575-776-3960 > > > > > on 3/30/10 12:58 PM, Ray Walters at [email protected] wrote: > >> I think we need to revisit Kit Carson being the problem. It may be as simple >> as having them lower the transformer voltage slightly. >> Its really a big system out there on the very end of the line. >> >> R. Walters >> [email protected] >> Solar Engineer >> >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: [email protected] >>> Date: March 30, 2010 12:49:05 PM MDT >>> To: "RE-wrenches" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems >>> Reply-To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> >>> >>> Ray, what is the AC output voltage at the inverters while they are selling? >>> If it goes too high (too small of a delivery wire) you will have to raise >>> the sell voltage by specifying "USER" in the mate. >>> >>> Todd >>> >>> On Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:42am, "R Ray Walters" <[email protected]> said: >>> >>> > We currently have a Grid Tie system with a pair of Outback inverters that >>> > are >>> > regularly dropping out of sell mode, and letting the arrays spend all day >>> > charging >>> > the battery bank. >>> > It seems to do this several times a week, and the customer is losing >>> > substantial >>> > production, and gassing the batteries too much. >>> > It will reset itself the next day, or the customer resets it by turning >>> > off the >>> > inverters manually. >>> > The system is 24 v, with an old array of 1800 watts running through 2 >>> > FM60s, and a >>> > new array of 2800 watts running through another pair of FM60s. >>> > The battery bank is HUP about 4100 Ah @ 24 v (3 strings of 1375 Ah each) >>> > Big >>> > battery, I know, but the customer is an electrical engineer, who wanted >>> > maximum >>> > storage capacity. >>> > >>> > Outback tech support has not resolved the issue, and this has turned into >>> > several >>> > service calls, and customer frustration. >>> > We've tried running the controllers through the HUB, and also >>> > independently, and >>> > that doesn't make a difference. >>> > I have numerous Outback GT installs dating back to 2003, and have never >>> > had a >>> > problem like this. >>> > Any help or advice would as always be greatly appreciated. >>> > >>> > Thank you in advance fellow Wrenches, >>> > >>> > R. Walters >>> > [email protected] >>> > Solar Engineer >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> > >>> > List Address: [email protected] >>> > >>> > Options & settings: >>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > List-Archive: >>> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> > >>> > List rules & etiquette: >>> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> > <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >>> > >>> > Check out participant bios: >>> > www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: [email protected] >>> >>> Options & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >>
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