1. With SellRE enabled, the AGS timers don't work correctly and I doubt it will auto start. I know for sure it will not exercise.
2. Even if you turn off SellRE, the GVFX is persnickety about AC IN and I don't think your Genny will sync with the inverter and therefore it will not charge the batteries. Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President & CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell: 512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Jan 16, 2013, at 11:53 AM, "SunHarvest" <[email protected]> wrote: > Finally got through to Outback. They said the GVFX could be wired with a > genny line-side of the inverter in order for the genny to charge the > batteries and that this configuration could potentially cause problems for > the genny. The likelihood of the PV sending power to the generator is > extremely small as the inverter needs to see 5 minutes of perfect power in > addition to sensing a near full battery bank before it will attempt to "sell" > power back to the AC source. Additionally, when the genset is connected with > the AGS the generator will turn on automatically when the batteries require > absorption and automatically turn off when the batteries are "full" > (according to set points). The moment when the batteries reach that "full" > set point is when the inverter may attempt to "sell" power back but this is > when the AGS will shut down the generator. > > I have, on my house, an older Xantrex SW4024 and it works fine with my Kohler > 8.5kW genset but then again, it has two AC-IN inputs which operate in mutual > exclusion. Outback mentioned that while the FX series inverters do not enjoy > this feature, the Radian inverter re-introduces this configuration. > Hallelujah! > > So, it sounds like the solution for the Outback grid-tied BB system is to > install an AGS...which is part of the plan as soon as the homeowner completes > some required genny repairs. > > The solution for the grid-tied Enphase system, it seems, will have to be > asking the homeowner to shut off his PV when the grid goes down...Ugh. > > But reading back through the older posts in this thread, pretty much all > recommending against configuring the genset supply-side of the inverter, the > question remains, for me at least, how does the generator charge the > batteries if the genny is load-side of the inverter? > > Eric > SunHarvest > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: SunHarvest > To: RE-wrenches > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:47 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] off grid PV connected to generator > > For claification, the two installs with which I'm concerned are: > > 1) Grid or 8.5kW Genset ---> Manual transfer switch ---> FlexPower One > w/GVFX3524, FM80, Mate ---> transformer to 240vac ---> Residential Loads. > This set up also has batteries and an old 600Wstc PV array tied in to the FP1. > > 2) Grid or ~10kW Genset determined by auto transfer switch, all located at > utility main panel/meter located > about 400' from main residence ---> Subpanel and sub meter at main residence > <--- PV-designated subpanel <--- 8.4kW PV array w/Enphase micros. > > It's good to hear (thanks Phil) that PV doesn't auto disconnect when the > genny kicks on (didn't think this was the case) but if the PV does not > disconnect don't we end up with PV potentially backfeeding to the genset?? > Isn't this thread discussing how PV backfeeding to a genny is a dangerous > configuration?? > > David, I can't disconnect the GVFX when the grid is down and the genny on as > both grid and genset supply the AC-IN to the inverter via the manual transfer > switch. But your comment begs the question: Why do you recommend > disconnecting the inverter? > > Still trying to connect to an Outback tech (Katee Wood)... > > Eric > SunHarvest > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Katz > To: RE-wrenches > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:12 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] off grid PV connected to generator > > Phil, > If Eric is using the FX ot GTFX in an AC coupled mode, he would need to > disconnect the grid tie inverter when the generator was running. From the > thread, I cannot tell if this is his situation. > David Katz > > Sent from my HTC smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint! > > > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Phil Undercuffler" <[email protected]> > To: "RE-wrenches" <[email protected]> > Subject: [RE-wrenches] off grid PV connected to generator > Date: Tue, Jan 15, 2013 8:07 pm > > > > Eric, > > Good questions, and you hit on a number of topics so let me see if I can > address them one at a time, not necessarily in chronological order. > > Yes, the optimal application for the GTFX / GVFX inverter series is grid tie > with battery backup. If you just want backup to the grid, the traditional FX > is a great solution. If you need extended run-time and want to integrate a > generator, then the Radian series is a better solution because it can not > only integrate both grid and generator, but it can change its operating > parameters based on which input it's connected to. > > The SW, XW and Radian inverters are all capable of operating on-grid > (grid-interactive or backup) or off-grid (with or without a generator). > However, none will automatically disconnect the PV when the genny > auto-starts, nor would I suggest that they should. Realistically, the system > should only start the genny when the batteries are near depletion -- if it's > started, the batteries need all the help they can get. Rather, the generator > should only be disconnected (turned off) when the batteries reach the absorb > setpoint. BTW, I can't speak for everyone but none of those inverters have > that functionality, at least not yet. > > With 600 Watts of connected PV, I wouldn't worry about disconnecting the PV. > Even with a small battery bank, the sun will set before that size of array > drives the bank anywhere close to an absorb voltage. Add another zero to the > PV size and my answer would be different, of course. > > Also, if you do wind up installing an automatic transfer switch with a > battery-based inverter system, don't allow the ATS to control the generator > starting, even if that flies against every tradition of the generator sales > guy. You don't want the genny running through every minute of the power > outage, you want the system to start the genny only when the batteries are > low. > > Good luck with it, and enjoy the sun! > > Phil > > > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 1:50 PM, SunHarvest <[email protected]> wrote: >> Further, I recently installed a GVFX for a customer. I'm hearing from >> certain sources that the grid-tied line of inverters from Outback are >> not designed to interface with a generator. Really?? >> >> I was told by Outback to install a transfer switch line/supply side of the >> inverter; that this was the only way to interface the genny with the >> inverter; that the AC Hot In could come from grid or a genset. And indeed, >> this is the only way I can figure out how to get the genny to charge the >> batteries when the grid goes down. But then again, I don't have the >> extensive electrical background that allows me to think outside the box as >> often as I would like...that's why I'm posing my query here for the pros. In >> this Outback install I have to again advise the homeowner to open the PV >> breaker to the inverter during generator operation, right? Even though he >> has a modest 600W (STC) array and an 8.5kW Kohler genset. Hardly the >> opportunity for solar to feed back to the genny under the most sunny and >> cool of days. I'm more concerned with the Enphase install. >> >> The Xantrex SW series inverters are fully capable of operating on-grid or >> off-grid with a genset. So do those inverters automatically disconnect the >> PV when the genny auto-starts? And with the Outback, is the Mate supposed to >> do the same (as long as the genny is operated by the auto-start and not a >> transfer switch)? > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected] Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
