By using the Magic stacking on the Outback I thought you could parallel more than one inverter per phase in three phase mode, I have heard of reactivity issues with this while attached to 3 phase condenser units I would suggest contacting tech on this.
This would be a though call for me I would probably go with the Sunny Islands AC coupled myself I have some great systems out there using the SI equipment. Jason Hi All; I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day. So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240 vac/ singe phase? We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac. 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters. All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, -- R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 West Coast Sustainables Jason Andrade C-46# 974647 (530) 410-4745 Cell (530) 241-7498 Office (530) 348-5301 Fax [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 10:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 7, Issue 120 Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..." When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject: line to the original, and please edit out any extraneous lines from the quoted message. Today's Topics: 1. 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Ray Walters) 2. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (William Miller) 3. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Ray Walters) 4. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter ([email protected]) 5. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Michael Morningstar) 6. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Brian Mehalic) 7. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Steve Jefferson) 8. Re: 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter (Ray Walters) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 20:44:14 -0600 From: Ray Walters <[email protected]> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi All; I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day. So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240 vac/ singe phase? We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac. 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters. All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, -- R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 19:58:49 -0700 From: "William Miller" <[email protected]> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ray Sunny Island or XW. Wm -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Hi All; I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day. So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240 vac/ singe phase? We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac. 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters. All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, -- R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:34:37 -0600 From: Ray Walters <[email protected]> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi William; I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out? The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other recent Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention of 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what is the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac? Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote: > Ray > > Sunny Island or XW. > > Wm > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Walters > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter > > Hi All; > > I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler > wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so > rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen > run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day. > So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3 > phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per > leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or > 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. > 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? > 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240 > vac/ singe phase? > > We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single > phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners, > that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run > fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac. > 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at > the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems > inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters. > > All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, > > -- > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 21:41:49 -0700 From: <[email protected]> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ray: Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that! XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware. Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they all? Wm -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Hi William; I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out? The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other recent Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention of 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what is the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac? Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote: > Ray > > Sunny Island or XW. > > Wm > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray > Walters > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter > > Hi All; > > I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw > Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air > compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily > interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day. > So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in > 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 > inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or > 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. > 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? > 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to > 240 vac/ singe phase? > > We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other > single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air > conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I > believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac. > 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie > together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. > This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters. > > All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, > > -- > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 06:54:54 -0700 From: Michael Morningstar <[email protected]> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I believe that with the transformer scenario, you will still have a secondary output with a 120 degree phase angle. Stacked inverters don't like that. Don't ask me how I know . It's been almost twenty years since I've run into your exact situation, and I remember experimenting with both open delta and Scott-T transformers only to make that discovery. The web wasn't what it is now, so there may be something that wasn't presenting itself back then. Good Luck On Mar 24, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Ray Walters wrot > Hi All; > > I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day. > So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. > 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? > 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to 240 vac/ singe phase? > > We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac. > 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters. > > All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, > > -- > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:04:06 -0400 From: Brian Mehalic <[email protected]> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <CAPKGs9QDZc=Ye9-ZUuJF=7dEtUADytLPu-LFnNdQ73F=xfn...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Wait a sec, "volume purchasing issues" doesn't equal "discontinued"! Sounds more like they're selling all they can make to a big customer! Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional(tm) R031508-59 IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132 PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor Solar Energy International http://www.solarenergy.org On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:41 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > Ray: > > Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that! > > XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved > most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware. > Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not > sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they > all? > > Wm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray > Walters > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter > > Hi William; > > I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the > Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore > because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out? > > The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other recent > Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention of > 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual > for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so > is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have > specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what > is > the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac? > Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches. > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote: > > Ray > > > > Sunny Island or XW. > > > > Wm > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray > > Walters > > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM > > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter > > > > Hi All; > > > > I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw > > Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air > > compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily > > interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ > day. > > So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in > > 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 > > inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or > > 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. > > 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? > > 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to > > 240 vac/ singe phase? > > > > We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other > > single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air > > conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I > > believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating > at 230 vac. > > 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie > > together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. > > This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the > various inverters. > > > > All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, > > > > -- > > R.Ray Walters > > CTO, Solarray, Inc > > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > > Licensed Master Electrician > > Solar Design Engineer > > 303 505-8760 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: [email protected] > > > > Change email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: [email protected] > > > > Change email address & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachme nts/20140325/7f8975e9/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 15:14:14 +0000 From: Steve Jefferson <[email protected]> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Morning Wrenches, The Sunny Island is NOT being discontinued. The 4248 and 5048 are being replaced with models 4548 and 6048. Both of the new models will work with 208VAC without issue. Also, if you are adding to an existing system that has the 5048 model, both new models will operate fine with it. Thanks SMA America, LLC Steve Jefferson Service Line Supervisor 3925 Atherton Ave Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714 U.S.A. Tel: +1 916 625 3185 (direct) Fax: +1 916 625 0871 Mobile: +1 916 622 4253 Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/> [cid:[email protected]]<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyq hzo&feature=youtu.be> This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Mehalic Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 7:04 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Wait a sec, "volume purchasing issues" doesn't equal "discontinued"! Sounds more like they're selling all they can make to a big customer! Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional(tm) R031508-59 IREC ISPQ Certified Affiliated Instructor/PV US-0132 PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor Solar Energy International http://www.solarenergy.org On Tue, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:41 AM, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Ray: Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that! XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware. Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they all? Wm -----Original Message----- From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] e-wrenches.org> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces @lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Hi William; I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out? The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other recent Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention of 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what is the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac? Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote: > Ray > > Sunny Island or XW. > > Wm > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected] e-wrenches.org> > [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:re-wrenches-bounces @lists.re-wrenches.org>] On Behalf Of Ray > Walters > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter > > Hi All; > > I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw > Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air > compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily > interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ day. > So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in > 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 > inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or > 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. > 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? > 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to > 240 vac/ singe phase? > > We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other > single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air > conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I > believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating at 230 vac. > 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie > together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. > This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the various inverters. > > All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, > > -- > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> > > _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachme nts/20140325/4d7398c5/attachment-0001.htm> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 30736 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachme nts/20140325/4d7398c5/attachment-0001.png> ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2014 10:18:34 -0600 From: Ray Walters <[email protected]> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Here's an off list reply from a friend of mine at SMA: Sunny islands are alive and well in the US. SMA required distributors to technically support them to get the best pricing. Some of the big boys declined and have been eliminating their advanced tech support, design services. Who told you SI-US is going away? To "stack" 3 phase clusters you use a multicluster box. You can gang 12 si's that way. -Wes R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/24/2014 10:41 PM, [email protected] wrote: > Ray: > > Sunny Islands being discontinued: Did not know that! > > XW inverters: Not impressed and have had mixed results. I have resolved > most issues but dealt with glitchy, overcomplicated software and firmware. > Some are reluctant to connect to generators and earlier firmware would not > sell efficiently. Also the BOS cabinet is way too small, but aren't they > all? > > Wm > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray Walters > Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 8:35 PM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter > > Hi William; > > I was told by two different major distributors a few months ago that the > Sunny Islands were not going to be available in the US anymore > because of some volume purchasing issues. Has that been sorted out? > > The XW I have not installed, since I've had poor results with other recent > Schneider products. No where could I find in the spec sheet any mention of > 3 phase/ 208 capability, but I found some mention of 3 phase in the manual > for the XW Config software. (XW 6048 Spec sheet just says single phase, so > is this a newer capability? or just in the config software) Do you have > specs or a wiring diagram for the XW in 208/ 3 phase? For instance, what is > the L to L (single phase) power rating at 208 vac? > Are the XWs decent? I've heard some positive feed back from other wrenches. > > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > > On 3/24/2014 8:58 PM, William Miller wrote: >> Ray >> >> Sunny Island or XW. >> >> Wm >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ray >> Walters >> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 7:44 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] 208 3 phase Off Grid Inverter >> >> Hi All; >> >> I'm exploring options for an off grid project with an existing 30 Kw >> Kohler wired for 208 vac 3 phase. The generator runs some 8 hp air >> compressors, so rewiring it is not an option. We're primarily >> interested in reducing gen run time from the current situation: 14 hrs/ > day. >> So far, only the Outback VFX inverters seem capable of being wired in >> 208, 3 phase, but according to the manual they can only be stacked 1 >> inverter per leg. This limits the system to only 3 inverters total, or >> 10.8 kW. I would like expandability beyond this. >> 1) are there any other inverters available that I'm over looking? >> 2) Should I consider a transformer to convert from 208 vac/3phase to >> 240 vac/ singe phase? >> >> We're not going to even try to run the compressors, just the other >> single phase loads, mostly 120 vac, but we have a couple of small air >> conditioners, that are currently running on 208 single phase. I >> believe they would run fine on 240 vac, as they have a name plate rating > at 230 vac. >> 3) We may possibly run 2 separate 3 inverter stacks and only tie >> together at the battery, but otherwise they would not be connected. >> This seems inefficient, and would require some load balancing of the > various inverters. >> All help and discussion is greatly appreciated as always, >> >> -- >> R.Ray Walters >> CTO, Solarray, Inc >> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, >> Licensed Master Electrician >> Solar Design Engineer >> 303 505-8760 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 7, Issue 120 ******************************************* _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
