Here's a link from the CO State Electrical Inspector Supervisor. http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2015/01/22/rapid-shutdown-of-pv-systems/ Good article. Seems like off grid pole mount array and battery conductors WILL apply.
Jeremy Rodriguez Solar Installation And Design Expert All Solar, Inc. 1463 M Penrose Colorado 81240 Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! > On Aug 26, 2015, at 5:41 PM, Tump <[email protected]> wrote: > > Rapid shut down, should be the direction we as off/grid or on grid BB > installers should be moving towards..... kinda like my flashing rant, we are > in the 21st century and we ARE professionals! We as an industry should be > more concerned about fire fighters and their safety BEFORE they goose step > their ideas into industry requirements, like they did in Mass. Educating your > fire fighters as to the location of the bird house and locking it would be a > quick solution to the malicious shutting off of a system. FF do carry and do > use bolt cutters. > >> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:26 PM, Ray Walters wrote: >> >> I spoke with Phil Undercuffler from Outback, who is a long term respected >> member of our list (and nice guy). He basically said there is a lot of >> misinformation on 690.12, but essentially it should only be applied to roof >> mounted PV, and that it is specifically to address firefighters' need to >> quickly vent the roof in the event of a fire. This original intent has >> nothing to do with ground mounted PV, batteries, backup inverter power, etc. >> Bill's more encompassing interpretation holds solar installers to a much >> higher standard than other electrical installations. UPS and backup >> generator systems for instance, that do not include PV, do not have to worry >> about Rapid Shutdown. >> 690.71 requiring a disconnect near the batteries, is still applicable, but >> it is really unclear how exactly the 5 ft should be measured. The battery >> combiner box from Midnite is what I was looking for, Thanks Tump. I plan to >> have breakers on the 2 separate parallel battery strings, so I think I will >> be able to make the 5 ft rule. Before, the furthest inverter disconnect was >> definitely going to be beyond 5 ft from the battery. I am still considering >> including the battery disconnects in the Rapid Shutdown system, but as Phil >> pointed out: this defeats the purpose of having a backup system, if anyone >> can just walk up to the outside of the house, push a button, and shut down >> all your critical loads. >> Once again, its all going to come down to the AHJ's view, though I will do >> my part to put him in touch with folks like Phil, who as the manufacturer's >> rep of the UL listed product has some say on how their equipment is to be >> installed. >> R.Ray Walters >> CTO, Solarray, Inc >> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, >> Licensed Master Electrician >> Solar Design Engineer >> 303 505-8760 >>> On 8/26/2015 4:44 PM, Tump wrote: >>> I know that IF the SMA SI master inverter is shut down then all follow, >>> shunt trip breaker only for the master? Also look at the Midnite MNBCB >>> 1000/50 >>> (Previous Model Num: MNBCB-1000/50-Battery Combiner) >>> MidNite 1000amp battery combiner box >>> Includes a 1000amp Positive and Negative bus bar with 3/8 inch studs. >>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 3:39 PM, Ray Walters wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Wrenches; >>>> >>>> I have an upcoming project to be inspected, ,and having spent too much >>>> time on off grid and out of country work, I'm now playing catch up with >>>> the new 690.12 and 690.71(H) requirements. >>>> The proposed GTB system is 3 Radians with a ground mounted >>>> 18kW array and large HUP battery bank. I just read a Bill Brooks article >>>> that basically says that Rapid Shutdown not only applies to ground mounted >>>> arrays that come into buildings, but also applies to battery cables if >>>> longer than 5 ft. >>>> There are 690.12 compliant combiners from Midnite that work with their >>>> Birdhouse system, so I think I've got a handle on the array requirements >>>> (more or less). >>>> What is stumping me is how to feed three 8kW inverters from a large >>>> battery, and install auto disconnect breakers within 5 ft. >>>> 1) the disconnect has to be large enough, Midnite only makes a 250 amp >>>> remote trip breaker, so I'd have to parallel 3 of these? >>>> 2) 690.71(H)3 says the breaker can't be in the battery enclosure, which is >>>> tricky since the enclosure is 160" long from one end to the other with 2 >>>> parallel strings. >>>> 3) I'm having trouble even finding an enclosure for 3 large DC breakers >>>> (Flex 1000 is the only thing I know of) and to get the enclosure close >>>> enough is an issue too. >>>> I just got off the phone with Tech support at Outback and they don't seem >>>> to have any Rapid Shutdown gear ready. >>>> Are inspectors actually requiring this yet, or because of the lack of >>>> available UL listed products, can we take a pass on at least some of the >>>> requirements? Another strategy the Outback tech thought of is to put all >>>> the equipment into a shipping container and then its not in or on a >>>> "building", and 690.12 doesn't apply. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> R.Ray Walters >>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc >>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, >>>> Licensed Master Electrician >>>> Solar Design Engineer >>>> 303 505-8760 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>> >>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>>> [email protected] www.SWNL.net >>>> Solarwinds Northernlights >>>> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >>>> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >>>> >>>> Blair "TUMP" May >>>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>>> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >>>> >>>> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >>>> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: [email protected] >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org > >> [email protected] www.SWNL.net >> Solarwinds Northernlights >> Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California >> 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 >> >> Blair "TUMP" May >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" >> >> ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** >> Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected] Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
