Hey I think Rapid shutdown is a cool idea too: you walk up and hit one
button and everything is safe. I've advocated for increased safety
including for batteries. But its at a cost: a big cost, especially for
small systems. While we debate what 690.12 applies to and which
equipment might work, the average off gridder yawns and buys stuff off
the internet; him and his buddy grab a 12 pack and they start hacking it
together. Every dollar we add to the system cost is moving the safety
we offer further from lower income people. Just ask how many inverters
sold last month on the internet.
The overall effect is not safer solar overall; instead its the uber rich
get the Rapid Shutdown, and the poor go for welding cable straight to
the battery.
And now lets talk Fire Fighter safety: who's shanty is going to be their
next 3 alarm fire?
Let's not leave regular people out of the safety equation, or we're
really just burning all of us, and the industry too.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 8/26/2015 6:57 PM, jay wrote:
I agree but how you shut it down is very different.
We can shut down BB inverter from the AC side as well.
Much easier, cheaper and does the same job.
my 2 cents.
jay
peltz power
On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Tump <[email protected]> wrote:
Rapid shut down, should be the direction we as off/grid or on grid BB
installers should be moving towards..... kinda like my flashing rant, we are in
the 21st century and we ARE professionals! We as an industry should be more
concerned about fire fighters and their safety BEFORE they goose step their
ideas into industry requirements, like they did in Mass. Educating your fire
fighters as to the location of the bird house and locking it would be a quick
solution to the malicious shutting off of a system. FF do carry and do use bolt
cutters.
On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:26 PM, Ray Walters wrote:
I spoke with Phil Undercuffler from Outback, who is a long term respected
member of our list (and nice guy). He basically said there is a lot of
misinformation on 690.12, but essentially it should only be applied to roof
mounted PV, and that it is specifically to address firefighters' need to
quickly vent the roof in the event of a fire. This original intent has nothing
to do with ground mounted PV, batteries, backup inverter power, etc. Bill's
more encompassing interpretation holds solar installers to a much higher
standard than other electrical installations. UPS and backup generator systems
for instance, that do not include PV, do not have to worry about Rapid Shutdown.
690.71 requiring a disconnect near the batteries, is still applicable, but it
is really unclear how exactly the 5 ft should be measured. The battery
combiner box from Midnite is what I was looking for, Thanks Tump. I plan to
have breakers on the 2 separate parallel battery strings, so I think I will be
able to make the 5 ft rule. Before, the furthest inverter disconnect was
definitely going to be beyond 5 ft from the battery. I am still considering
including the battery disconnects in the Rapid Shutdown system, but as Phil
pointed out: this defeats the purpose of having a backup system, if anyone can
just walk up to the outside of the house, push a button, and shut down all your
critical loads.
Once again, its all going to come down to the AHJ's view, though I will do my
part to put him in touch with folks like Phil, who as the manufacturer's rep of
the UL listed product has some say on how their equipment is to be installed.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
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