Rapid Shut Down is going to be more of an issue than thisI think, and that is going to be chewed over quite a bit on Wrenches Ibet. Chris
On 3/3/2016 3:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Chris, ÂWhile Johnâs article may seem like a logical interpretation of the 2014 NEC, if you lived in the western half of the United States where these panels are common, you would have a very different view of his choice of articles.ÂHis article sites a technicality that is not a safety concern in the least. Of all the things that AHJs have to worry about with PV, this has to be at the very bottom of the listâand yet this is the only thing that many AHJs look at because someone wrote an article about it. We set the record straight in the 2017 NEC, but that does not fix the fact that literally 1,000s of these perfectly fine panels have been removed due to the focus of this magazine article.ÂYour opinion of this interpretation would be very different if you had lost a PV system sale because someone was unwilling to incur the extra cost of a panel change out when you knew it was totally unnecessary.ÂI have all the respect in the world for what you are doing in the northeast. Iâm just helping with some âperspectiveâ from the left coast. Iâm off my high horse,  Bill. Â*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Christopher Warfel*Sent:* Thursday, March 03, 2016 6:42 AM *To:* [email protected]*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of Connection - 120% rule for center-fed panelboardsÂThis is a link to John Wiles article on NEC2014 for this topic. To my knowledge, no one has adopted NEC2017, so it would seem that this article is appropriate for the most recent NEC published. As noted AHJs can allow exceptions, and it is great that new language is now approved for NEC2017, but that wasn't the case when John Wiles published his article.http://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/07/10/center-fed-load-centers-and-panelboards/ There is also pdf version here. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwjl8OmH26TLAhWI7D4KHcbJAHQQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdept-wp.nmsu.edu%2Fswtdi%2Ffiles%2F2015%2F11%2Fiaei_jul-aug_2014.pdf&usg=AFQjCNERV2M21V1nvLlvLVSLZUMoj36J_A&sig2=g145SdF1HzNuHc0P6NXshw&bvm=bv.115339255,d.cWw&cad=rja Chris On 3/2/2016 2:24 PM, [email protected] wrote: All,  Here is the new language that has been approved for the 2017 NEC (more authoritative than JW).  705.12(B)(3)(d)  (d) A connection at either end, but not both ends, of a center-fed panelboard in dwellings shall be permitted where the sum of 125 percent of the power source(s) output circuit current and the rating of the overcurrent device protecting the busbar does not exceed 120 percent of the current rating of the busbar.  This clarifies that it was never the intent of the NEC to limit the 120% rule to the opposite end of the busbar for dwellings (it was allowed from 2005 back to 1987). I was able to convince the panel that centerfed panels did not need the opposite end stipulation. Several large jurisdictions in California or considering making an official policy accepting the language of the 2017 NEC on this item. Please share this with your own jurisdiction.  Bill.   *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Glenn Burt *Sent:* Wednesday, March 02, 2016 10:54 AM *To:* RE-wrenches <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of Connection - 120% rule for center-fed panelboards  I believe that John Wiles has stated this in a couple of places in print, therefore you may have a tough time justifying a way around the rule to an AHJ. Supply side connections are very popular in this situation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From: *August Goers <mailto:[email protected]> *Sent: *â3/â2/â2016 11:32 *To: *RE-wrenches <mailto:[email protected]> *Subject: *[RE-wrenches] NEC 705.12 Point of Connection - 120% rule for center-fed panelboards All â  We are seeing more AHJs not allowing us to use the NEC 7015.12(D)(2)(3)(b) 120% rule on center-fed panelboards. For example, if we have a 100 A meter/main combo with a center fed 100 A breaker we cannot apply the 120% rule at all and need to do a panel swap. What are other wrenches doing in this case?  Best,  August Luminalt _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance  List Address:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>  Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org  List-Archive:http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html  List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>  Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>  -- Christopher Warfel, President ENTECH Engineering, Inc. 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