Do an Energy Load Evaluation, it commits the client to participation in a personal way. I will not design without one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" Please consider the environment before printing this email. -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Young Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 1:51 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter Agreed Dave, there are more loads than the original design accounted for. The client understands this so at least we're not in hot water. We're just trying to help them figure out options. As for the converters, this was the idea before the client told us about the freezer being left on while they were away. It was originally planned that the freezer and fridge were only to be used while they were on site. The converters were only the plan when we thought we were dealing with 4-5 different DC loads, and assuming 2 different DC voltages being needed. The situation changed since the original post. The site does have a flexnet-DC, this is what I'm using for my analysis of the loads on an ongoing basis. I've been using the information coming from the 2 shunts used in the system, as my experience has been that they are the most accurate part of the system viewable from Optics-RE. As for concords, they don't appear to be very different from the cut sheet standpoint. Similar cycle life, similar capacity vs temperature. But they are both AGM. I know concord is a big name in the AGM space as they supply to the D.O.D. but our local suppliers do not carry them. I'd be open to others opinions on the different brand options. Most AGM system we put in are just floating for the 1-2 times a year the power goes out for suburban and semi-rural clients. This off grid job went AGM due to the expected long absences and unconditioned battery location (expected cold temps while possibly at a lower SOC). The client really did not want to do the standard flooded battery maintenance. With Regards, Daniel Young, NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 Lead Systems Designer for: www.dovetailsolar.com Ph: 740-274-0139 -----Original Message----- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 3:34 PM To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter Seems to me that you are on the edge for that size battery in winter. If the inverter is going to be on, converters are kind of nutty to me. I could see having one 24V for the freezer but... I only use Concorde AGM's when I have to. Is there an AH counter or Batt Mon? Good Luck Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 > Answers to questions: > > > > The batteries are Discover EVL16A-A batteries. A single string of 8: > 390AH @48V nominal. We had one fail last year, showing a significantly > raised internal resistance when tested under a load then under charge. > There is another one showing signs of weakness, but currently under a > 30A draw it is only 0.12V lower than the highest battery in the mix, > and 0.05V from the average battery voltage. Readings were: 6.0, 5.88, > 6.0, 5.93, 5.92, 5.91, 5.93, 5.94 using a 1500W space heater as a > constant load during the test. > > > > There are more loads than just networking and security that the client > just recently disclosed. Gotta love the added loads to the design. > There is a satellite DVR, 2x4 camera webcam systems, cell modem, > simplisafe security system, chest freezer, 4 wifi range extenders to > serve the less reliable security camera system, and 26W LED dusk-dawn > light. I have already talked to them about thinking hard on what items > can be removed for the winter at least (DVR is going away, and one of > the camera systems too, likely the one requiring the wifi range > extenders). All other seasons the system is fine. > > > > As for the DC converter(s) we would get a voltage specific converter > for any unique voltages, depending on the # of unique items, we would > likely abandon that approach if it got to bee too complicated. But > thank you to all that provided guidance there. The meanwell units > seemed to have the right specs to do the job if we go that route. We > would also install them using a LVD of some sort, set somewhere above > the standard low voltage cutoff of the rest of the system. We would > also only go this route if all AC loads could be removed by doing > this, allowing us to remove the 36w idle draw of the Outback. > > > > With Regards, > > > > Daniel Young, > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 > > > > Lead Systems Designer for: > > > > <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/> www.dovetailsolar.com > > Ph: 740-274-0139 > > > > We’ve completed nearly 400 renewable energy projects! Check out a > few in our photo gallery: > <http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+el > ectric> > http://www.dovetailsolar.com/Our-Work.aspx?path=commercial+-+solar+ele > ctric > > This email message and attachments are intended only for the addressee. > It may contain information which is legally privileged, confidential > and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of > this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this > message and/or the information contained in the message. If you have > received this message in error, please reply and notify the sender > (only) and delete this message along with any attachments. > Unauthorized interception of this email is a violation of criminal > laws and laws covering electronic communications privacy matters. > > > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] > On Behalf Of Starlight Solar Power Systems > Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2018 11:08 AM > To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off grid DC Loads: DC Converter > > > > I too would like to know the make and model of batteries that are > loosing capacity. In the past 5 years we have experienced abnormally > high failures from 2 brands. > > > > Larry > > On Jan 15, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com > <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Can you tell us: > > > > Battery make,model and size? > > > > Jay > > Peltz power. > > > On Jan 15, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Daniel Young < > <mailto:dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> dyo...@dovetailsolar.com> wrote: > > Hello Wrenches, > > > > I have a client that is running into an issue with his off grid system. > The system is 3yrs old and they are starting to notice their AGM > battery bank is loosing capacity, in reality they are noticing the > generator is triggering more often. They want to try to lower the > frequency of the generator triggering if possible. > > > > The system is not occupied during much of the winter (unconditioned, > which further hurts the battery bank capacity), but the client has a > security system with a cell modem installed and always on. This > fortunately allows Optics-RE access, but unfortunately based on the > FNDC shunt readings, is pulling a consistent 150w from the battery > bank. Currently the network and security equipment is powered from standard > wall-warts running on AC. > > > > I’d like to help the client extend the time between generator cycles > by taking the network loads and powering them directly from the > battery bank (the loads are all 12Vdc). Does anyone have any > recommendations for a decent quality DC_DC converter that would be > applicable? Given inverter losses and the efficiency of the typical > wall-wart, I’d expect the running loads to be closer to 80-100w > rather than the 150w we see now. The intent is to then take the > inverter into search mode, or even switch it off, to remove the tare > losses there, and also to take all the wasted power from the standard > wall-warts and go to a single, more efficient dc power supply. > > > > Any recommendations on a good DC_DC converter are appreciated. > > > > With Regards, > > > > Daniel Young, > > NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 > > Dovetail Solar and Wind > > > > __________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: <mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > <http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillis > t.html> > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist > .html > > List rules & etiquette: > <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist > .html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060 _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
