WrenchesHere is the math, well the answer at sea level your body has 14.70 PSI exerted on it, at 10,000 feet you only have 10.163 PSI, reduced air pressure, reduced cooling or heating ability adjusted for standard sea level temp or just over 69%.I have done work in Hawaii on the big island up at the summit, it can be warm and very thin air, without air to cool no inverter will perform very well. I have some SMA, FX and Raidians in warm high altitude locations and added extra cooling to compensate for the lack of air. You will hear the cooling fans spinning faster, moving less air at higher altitudes.SMA sunny island does have a 9k plus operating altitude but de-rates at less the 7k.JerryPV inspector Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone -------- Original message --------From: Jay Pozner <[email protected]> Date: 4/12/19 10:06 AM (GMT-08:00) To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems We do a fair amount of systems at "altitude". Recently we had an issue with a Radian system at about 10,000'. An 8048 inverter screaming (fans running hard) with just 2000 watts of load. I hounded tech support for two years, and even after switching power modules, etc in the end the techs claim a fairly substantial deration (that I can't quote right now) of inverter performance because of cooling issues. We ultimately added another inverter to the system at the end of last summer. I hope this season we will see a better result. It makes sense, given the difference in air density, but I do scratch my head and wonder why we haven't seen such issues with the older FX's, and some of the older legacy systems?I also know that the Midnite classic charge controllers seem to run the fans quite hard as well. I haven't had to replace any of the fans, and the controllers are performing great, but wonder if that will be an issue in the future. It would be great if some manufactures would give us a quality, competitively priced, equipment that is rated for altitude, but I don't think there are that many options out there as of now.Jay Pozner(970) 642-5554www.nunatakenergy.comNABCEP Certified PV Installer:Cert.#031310-177On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 9:17 AM Steve Higgins <[email protected]> wrote:Not to add fuel to the fire... and it's been almost 7 years since I've been with an Inverter manufacturer so here is my .02 cents... So again, I hope I'm not overstepping the boundaries of the Wrenches list. If I remember correctly the main issue with the high altitude installs are some of the components that are used to build the inverter/controllers aren't rated to be used at high altitude, one of the main components that have this issue is the electrolytic capacitors. Of course, the specs vary from component to component. I've seen some rated as low as 8000 ft to some as rated as high as 30,000 ft. It really just depends on the part(s) that the manufacturer used to build the product. As you gain altitude the temperatures and the air pressure decrease, as it was explained to me years ago the problem is with the temperature decrease, this will affect the capacitance of the capacitor. The colder temps will reduce the overall capacitance of the capacitor, just like it will with a battery. These caps are generally used to filter noise from circuits, so when these fail, or the capacitance values fall, you don't get the filtering you need and this induces noise into your circuitry possibly causing overall failure or worse, the dreaded intermittent failure. Generally, if the inverters/controllers are kept on and warm, you won't have too many problems, it's when they are in extremely cold temperatures is when you will start having issues. Hope this helps! Have a good weekend! Steve Higgins ⋅ Technical Services Manager t +1.902.597.4020 m +1.206.790.5840f +1.902.597.8447 e [email protected] CONFIDENTIALITY: The information transmitted herein is intended only for the addressee and may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, distribution or other use of or the taking of any action in reliance upon this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy this message and all copies.On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 7:47 AM <[email protected]> wrote:Folks: The issue here ulltimately isn’t whether it works or not, it’s if it’s WARRANTED. Some purchasers (in this case the USFS) mandate that all equipment be warranted for high altitudes. And that leaves out several major suppliers. Chris DaumOasis Montana Inc. From: RE-wrenches <[email protected]> On Behalf Of RaySent: Thursday, April 11, 2019 10:55 PMTo: [email protected]: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems We've had some systems at 11,000 ft plus, for almost 20 years. We have mixtures of Outback, Midnite, Blue Sky, and old Trace equipment. Never any issues with electronics related to altitude. Actually the altitude related system issues are generator derating, and array output exceeding STC ratings on really clear cold days due to the thin atmosphere. The third issue would be installers not being able to catch our breath after jogging back to the truck. Ray WaltersRemote Solar303 505-8760On 4/11/19 3:39 PM, Dan Fink wrote:Hi Chris; I am deeply concerned about this as nearly 100% of the systems I install are at 8000 ft (2500m) or higher. I've never had a problem with warranty claims to Outback or Schneider up to this time. If this is a "new thing" I'd really like to know about it, on list or off. The alitude de-rate stuff seems to involve dialectric ratings on the transformer coils, and low air density for cooling. I think that's all in ANSI. Dan FinkDirector of Solar Education, Greendustrial Training LLCIREC Certified Instructor™ for: ~ PV Installation Professional~ Small Wind InstallerNABCEP PV AssociateExecutive Director, Buckville Energy ConsultingNABCEP Registered Continuing Education [email protected] On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:28 PM <[email protected]> wrote:Hi folks: I am curious as to how many of you sell/install battery/inverter systems at high altitudes? Have you had any particular issues with them? Last year we discovered (in a mostly costly fashion) that Schneider inverters (and also Outback) are not warranted above 6500 ft. Magnum inverters are warranted to 15,000 ft max altitude. Best, Chris DaumOasis Montana Inc.406-777-4309 or 4321406-777-4309 faxwww.oasismontana.com _______________________________________________List sponsored by Redwood AllianceList Address: [email protected] listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.htmlList rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org_______________________________________________List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: [email protected] Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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