On May 25, 2020, at 2:37 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
<[email protected]> wrote:
Jay knows about these and I won't name them just because I use
them. They are the perfect size for most offgrid and scalable.
I have a client in Texas who left them for 14 months off, and maybe
they lost 1%. The best part of them for me, is all a client has to
do is enter the date in the system control panel and all of the rest
is done. True plug and play. Built by a company that has made
locomotive batteries for decades. I asked them Jay on linkedin. He
said do what you want with Soc. Don't worry about any of that. Just
know that we have you covered. Below is from their latest webinar.
For a solar installation to pass final inspection, the batteries
must have been tested and approved to UL 1973. Not just the cell but
the battery. So, before making a final selection, verify that the
battery selection you make has you covered. These LiFePO_4
batteries meet this certification, so you can be confident that
your customers batteries are safe and pass inspection. Our
commitment to safety, reliability and certification also delivers
the following.
* Safe and Maintenance Free
* Sophisticated High Current BMS
* Field Serviceable BMS
* IP 55 Rated
* IEC 62133 Safety
* UL 1973 Safety Certified
* UN 38.3 Transport Certified
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ e-mail [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> text 209 813 0060*
On Sun, 24 May 2020 21:05:06 -0700, Jerry Shafer
<[email protected]> wrote:
It may take a little bit as it wrapped up just over 2 years ago,
most of the research stayed at the lab. I do recall V2 did not
survive the cycling test, it was unable to restart from 99% dod.
There is no substitute for a multi-level battery management
structure when it comes to Li tech. I have priced simplify dirt
to keys and it cost more then Blue did and required more space.
There was another one that came in near the end and was built in
what appeared to be a 66" tall chemical storage cabinet just to
make it fire rated, maybe it's just me but batteries that can
catch fire may not be the best choice but hey I'm funny like
that. Anyone installing any batteries needs to read the very
fine print that talks about "what to do in case of" and that can
be a deciding factor right there.
Way back when all FLA's had to be in a pan to catch the acid
before it did damage, that was 20 years ago by now it should be
safer not more dangerous.
On Sun, May 24, 2020, 8:36 PM jay <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
HI Jerry,
Most impressive.
Would you be willing to tell us which ones didn't meet this
test, if not publicly, then off list?
thanks
jay
On May 24, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Jerry Shafer
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Wrenches
Again not all batteries are the same, Chemistry,
recharge rate or intelligence of the BMS, l have
personally tested Blue planet batteries, l have let them
sit at 100% SOC for 10 weeks, ran them at 30% SOC for 6
months, l have performed 100% to 0% cycling up to 4
times a day. This is the same tests l ran on a variety
of Li tech batteries and BluePlanet is the only one that
survived this testing. It's ore then spec sheets and
cost, it comes down to success or failure, personally l
like success and being able to pass or fail batteries
without having my customers pay the price is a good
thing. Blue Planet has 8000 cycles life and a 15 year
warranty at 70% compare that to anything out there but
again that's just me.
On Sun, May 24, 2020, 1:32 PM Darryl Thayer
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
I have spoken with a li battery
researcher. Do not charge over 85% of battery full
charge voltage and they will last over 25 years.
But go above or below bottom and trouble
On Sun, May 24, 2020, 10:27 AM Jay
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
One question I have for those more versed than
me in lithium is, I'm under the impression that
having a lithium battery in float for years
isn't good for it. Or at the very least it has
to be cycled with some regularity.
I'd like to hear data on that
Thx
Jay
Peltz power.
On May 23, 2020, at 10:08 PM, Ray
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
I suggest starting with a very simple look
at the continuous output rating of the
battery and match that to the inverter
continuous rating. This ends up with quite a
bit more battery than you might think at
first. However, if the customer paid the big
bucks for a battery backup system, they
should at least get enough battery to
operate the inverter at its rated power.
Anything less, I would consider poor design.
The same goes for lead acid batteries, they
just don't work well, even on grid, when the
battery is undersized. Even lead acid
batteries have maximum current output
ratings that should at least be matched to
the inverter rating.
If you WERE going to under size the battery,
then you should keep it safe by reducing the
size of the inverter battery breaker as
well. I know this "micro battery for GTB"
is becoming a trend, but it doesn't mean its
right.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 5/23/20 5:48 PM, Mick Abraham wrote:
Greetings, All~ Mark Frye had asked:
"...with a 4000w Outback Radian, AC
coupled with 2000w of PV, what is the
smallest Li battery I would want for
stable operation?"
Mick's reply: In the lithium arena, one
often finds the ratings in
kilowatt-hours rather than in amp-hours.
This is an easy conversion for us energy
nerds to make, so below I'm mainly using
watts & watt-hours with occasional
conversions to amp-hours.
I suggest that you start with the spec
sheet (of whichever brand lithium
battery is on your radar), & see what
the manufacturer says about "allowable
rate of recharge". You may find that C/2
is an acceptable rate with several
manufacturers, Mark--much faster than
what we're accustomed to with typical
lead-acid batteries. Let's assume:
* ...that your AC coupled PV array
crests around 1800 watts to the battery
when there are no loads
* ...that the battery is below 100%
state of charge, and
* ...that the solar conditions are optimal.
Let's further assume that
those conditions represent your
battery's highest energy rate in either
direction.
1800w X two hours = 3,600 watt-hours
dividing by 48v nominal = 75 amp-hours
in the above hypothetical situation.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The rate at which a battery can receive
energy is (usually) also the rate at
which it can comfortably deplete, so
let's briefly look at the flip side:
Assuming the battery mfr. wants the
watt-hours to be no less than two times
the maximum wattage, a 3600 watt-hour
(C/2) battery should not be depleted
faster than 1800 watts. Your 4kW Radian,
Mark, could exceed that if the loads
demand it--& maybe your loads don't.
Motor starting surges should probably be
part of the thinking & it wouldn't hurt
to ask the mfr.'s opinion about short
term surges which briefly deplete the
battery faster than the hypothetical two
hour rate.
By approaching this question based on
the battery manufacturer do's & don'ts,
one improves the chance of getting
warranty coverage should it later be
needed. "What the large print giveth,
the fine print taketh away."
The Wrench List is the Bomb!
Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com
<http://www.abrahamsolar.com/>
Landline: 970-731-4675
Cell phone or for text messaging:
970-946-6584
ᐧ
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