I had many more failures with the VFX inverters, but at least we could
rebuild them in the field. I think the old Trace stuff was the pinacle
of reliability. I still have many SWs going well over 20 years. I had
great luck with Magnum, until I got my first dud last year. Now they're
out, but I'm installing a used one soon.
I'm really at a loss as to what to deploy at this point. The AIOs are
not the answer for offgrid, but I'm going to give a Midnite Rosie a try
next, I think. I've been happy with Midnite's 600 v Charge Controllers,
except don't use them on 24v! (48v only)
I've tried some Victron stuff, which also requires a phone app and blue
tooth to program. Manuals could definitely use more info, and tech
support has been non existent. I use them for small projects (inverter
< 2 kW) for now.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 5/12/2025 9:52 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote:
Was Outback woes.
Hi Ray,
I agree completely. Off grid reached its peak reliability and then
declined. I thought it peaked with the VFX and Radian inverters, both
of which could have stood some improvements. With the VFXR and the
Radian A, The inverters seemed to be made more cheaply and more prone
to problems. The rest is history.
The reliance on cell phones and internet seems to me to be completely
against the spirit of self reliant off grid systems. In the old days,
I would set up a system and after a bit (or lot) of messing around
would work for years.
What is the best off grid inverter to use these days?
Thank you,
Drake
/Drake Chamberlin/
/Athens Electric LLC/
/Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810/
/NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional/
---
On 2025-05-11 14:37, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
I agree Michael, my call backs and free trips are way up with Li
batteries and AIO. I just don't know what the system is doing or
what to expect from the settings. Dark Start has now become a normal
thing. My blood pressure is off the charts trying to talk to tech
support with one bar of cell service. I have a DC power supply and
inverter to restart the batts. I now own a PC laptop that's sole
purpose is firmware updates.
Guess what? Lead acid almost never needed a trip out to restart. The
sun comes out, and it starts recharging. Lead acid is SELF HEALING. I
just can't get LVD settings that keep Li bats out of dark start
territory. All is fine until its not. Here's some experiences:
1) A Fortress firmware glitch that shut the whole system down when it
reached 100% SOC.
Result: rotten food in both freezers, customer confidence: they sold
the property.
Solution: upgrade Fortress Firmware.
2) Simpliphi and XW system works fine for 5 years, then a low battery
issue during bad weather causes all 4 Simpliphi batteries to fry.
Result: customer is on generator full time for 2 months.
Solution: finally get replacement batteries and replace XW inverter
with Magnum.
3) Homegrid batteries go into dark mode after solar shuts off for a
couple of days. No battery voltage to turn on charge controller
again. Result: 3 trips out to restart batteries, and hang out for
hours to make sure the inverter will reconnect, and stay connected.
Solution: still not sure, I raised the LVD and reconnect voltages,
but the battery's no load draw from the BMS seems to be very
significant.
4) Midnite AIO won't connect to phone app, which is the only way to
program it. I turn on the inverter, and it just bricks.
Result: It can't function out of the box without being setup with the
phone app that doesn't always work.
Solution: after 2-1/2 hours on a bad connection with Tech support, we
finally get the inverter to reset and start working properly. I had
to delete and reload the phone app 5 times before it would finally
connect to the inverter. What's going to happen when you come back
in 5 years with a different phone?
I can share more with other companies I've tried including Rubix, and
Blue Planet. The only Li battery I've not had trouble with was LiFe
Blue (thanks Larry), but they're only for 12v systems. I am still
installing lead acid for many of my customers, because we know what
to expect. A lesser evil is better than the unknown that can be much
worse. Retirement can't come too soon.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 5/11/2025 9:47 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
I wonder where all this is going? A plethora of Chinese ( I
understand virtually everything electronic is manufactured there)
AIOs and batteries, each with their own communication protocols,
programing parameters, and individual peculiarities. I say this with
all modesty and humility, that until a few years ago, it was a rare
troubleshooting situation that I needed guidance from tech support
for most anything. Now the extent of my prowess has been reduced to:
"power cycle" it and if that doesn't work call tech support, and
then be prepared for a frustrating, protracted, and costly in terms
of my time, experience.
I also wonder if it's sort of a "race to the bottom" (thanks for
that one Bob-O) as far a quality goes. Discover discontinued it's
AES battery which I think was the pinnacle, and replaced it with the
Helios (which I have high hopes for). I'm hoping it's not a clone of
all the others that are similar and I understand that the AES simply
couldn't compete.
Just my mind dump sans edit
On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 8:17 AM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com
<mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Fortress and eg4 both use the same basic LUX made inverters.
Sol ark is made by DEYE.
On May 11, 2025, at 8:04 AM, Michael Morningstar via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
How does the Lux, Envy, and Sol-Ark compare to Midnite's AIO? I
was all on board the Midnite train but I'm coming to the
conclusion that they released it prematurely. Glitchy and Quirky.
On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 7:40 AM Jay via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
One of the things I like about the LUX is that you can do
programming with the built in display.
The online monitoring is good as Maverick says.
I also think it's way more accurate as well.
The LUX 12kw is a solid unit.
Jay
On May 11, 2025, at 7:35 AM, Maverick Brown via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
William,
I have both the ENVY and Radian (and XW at my own home).
The ENVY online experience is great. It may have replaced
the Sol-Ark online monitoring as my favorite. (I have
installed about 20 Sol-Arks and they also have tons of
data and a great overall online experience).
The data collected by ENVY is far greater than OpticsRE,
many more parameters are saved. ENVY also has a working
smart phone App that shows more data than the now offline
/ defunct OpticsRE app.
OpticsRE does log enough data to understand that the
system is functioning, but the additional AC data and way
the information is presented gives ENVY far superior
results. I do lean more towards the way OpticsRE allows
editing parameters on the Devices section. That's likely
because I am more familiar with the terminology. But, The
ENVY Inverter has a built in display / touch screen that
allows you to edit all of the values and make the system
work without any internet / wireless / bluetooth
connection. That is a great fall back. I am used to the
MATE3s, but new customers have a crazy time with learning
how it works and where values are able to be changed. The
ENVY App bridges that gap!
Now the dream part is that since Outback is now owned by
the same people that also sell the EG4 18kPV (which is
also made by Luxpower just like the ENVY), the best of
both worlds could come about == more data collected and an
available and a solid smart phone app for customers that
want such a thing.
The screenshot of the app is straight forward and the tabs
at the bottom show charts, alarms and settings.
The screenshot for desktop is very detailed and you can
scroll down on the first page and get 3-4 screenfuls of
data for just about anything you want to know.
Let me know if you have a specific question, I can give
you a comparison.
<Screenshot 2025-05-11 at 9.11.09 AM.png>
<IMG_3420.PNG>
Maverick Brown
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006
*Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.*
* • Solar Commander Remote Power*
* • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection
*maver...@mavericksolar.com
<mailto:maver...@mavericksolar.com>
512-460-9825
On May 10, 2025, at 9:58 PM, William Miller via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
Bought a VFXR3648 and two FXR3048s recently. They
actually worked! Miracle.
The client for which I am suggesting an Envy 12 instead
of new FM100s is really attached to Optics. Now that
Optics is unreliable it is easier to suggest an alternative.
I'd like to hear about the Envy on-line interface. Is it ok?
William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:23 PM Jay via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
As a follow up.
Has anyone purchased a new OB inverter or CC or mate.
I mean specifically remote new outback company.
Jay
On May 10, 2025, at 11:19 AM, Todd Cory via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
Well, Outback's Optics RE is down yet again, also
the back up site too and also the users forum...
which had a massive database of current and past
problem solving archives.
What a clusterfuck this new company is.
Wise wrenches should beware of patronizing this
obvious sinking ship.
Todd
<img-0.png>
Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
<img-0.png>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here:
http://re-wrenches.org <http://re-wrenches.org/>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one
doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
<http://re-wrenches.org/>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one
doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
<http://re-wrenches.org>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one
doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
<http://re-wrenches.org>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one
doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
<http://re-wrenches.org>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
--
Michael Morningstar
Morningstar Electric Inc
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
CSLB 1116835
mjmornings...@gmail.com <mailto:mjmornings...@gmail.com>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
<http://re-wrenches.org>
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
--
Michael Morningstar
Morningstar Electric Inc
PO Box 1494
Mount Shasta, CA 96067
530-921-0560
CSLB 1116835
mjmornings...@gmail.com <mailto:mjmornings...@gmail.com>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org <http://re-wrenches.org>
List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
<https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org
List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
