I agree 100% . Internet access and phone apps are great tools, however when they are a requirement for system operation or commissioning of a true off grid system they can be hinderance. I agree that the old SW inverters were the best in their day, but those of us that have earned our scar tissue might remember when installers were complaining about the lack of remote access. Pieter Huebner Off Grid Enterprises ________________________________ From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> on behalf of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2025 11:58 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Cc: Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off Grid
I had many more failures with the VFX inverters, but at least we could rebuild them in the field. I think the old Trace stuff was the pinacle of reliability. I still have many SWs going well over 20 years. I had great luck with Magnum, until I got my first dud last year. Now they're out, but I'm installing a used one soon. I'm really at a loss as to what to deploy at this point. The AIOs are not the answer for offgrid, but I'm going to give a Midnite Rosie a try next, I think. I've been happy with Midnite's 600 v Charge Controllers, except don't use them on 24v! (48v only) I've tried some Victron stuff, which also requires a phone app and blue tooth to program. Manuals could definitely use more info, and tech support has been non existent. I use them for small projects (inverter < 2 kW) for now. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 5/12/2025 9:52 AM, Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches wrote: Was Outback woes. Hi Ray, I agree completely. Off grid reached its peak reliability and then declined. I thought it peaked with the VFX and Radian inverters, both of which could have stood some improvements. With the VFXR and the Radian A, The inverters seemed to be made more cheaply and more prone to problems. The rest is history. The reliance on cell phones and internet seems to me to be completely against the spirit of self reliant off grid systems. In the old days, I would set up a system and after a bit (or lot) of messing around would work for years. What is the best off grid inverter to use these days? Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC Ohio Electrical Contractor’s License 44810 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional --- On 2025-05-11 14:37, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote: I agree Michael, my call backs and free trips are way up with Li batteries and AIO. I just don't know what the system is doing or what to expect from the settings. Dark Start has now become a normal thing. My blood pressure is off the charts trying to talk to tech support with one bar of cell service. I have a DC power supply and inverter to restart the batts. I now own a PC laptop that's sole purpose is firmware updates. Guess what? Lead acid almost never needed a trip out to restart. The sun comes out, and it starts recharging. Lead acid is SELF HEALING. I just can't get LVD settings that keep Li bats out of dark start territory. All is fine until its not. Here's some experiences: 1) A Fortress firmware glitch that shut the whole system down when it reached 100% SOC. Result: rotten food in both freezers, customer confidence: they sold the property. Solution: upgrade Fortress Firmware. 2) Simpliphi and XW system works fine for 5 years, then a low battery issue during bad weather causes all 4 Simpliphi batteries to fry. Result: customer is on generator full time for 2 months. Solution: finally get replacement batteries and replace XW inverter with Magnum. 3) Homegrid batteries go into dark mode after solar shuts off for a couple of days. No battery voltage to turn on charge controller again. Result: 3 trips out to restart batteries, and hang out for hours to make sure the inverter will reconnect, and stay connected. Solution: still not sure, I raised the LVD and reconnect voltages, but the battery's no load draw from the BMS seems to be very significant. 4) Midnite AIO won't connect to phone app, which is the only way to program it. I turn on the inverter, and it just bricks. Result: It can't function out of the box without being setup with the phone app that doesn't always work. Solution: after 2-1/2 hours on a bad connection with Tech support, we finally get the inverter to reset and start working properly. I had to delete and reload the phone app 5 times before it would finally connect to the inverter. What's going to happen when you come back in 5 years with a different phone? I can share more with other companies I've tried including Rubix, and Blue Planet. The only Li battery I've not had trouble with was LiFe Blue (thanks Larry), but they're only for 12v systems. I am still installing lead acid for many of my customers, because we know what to expect. A lesser evil is better than the unknown that can be much worse. Retirement can't come too soon. Ray Walters Remote Solar On 5/11/2025 9:47 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote: I wonder where all this is going? A plethora of Chinese ( I understand virtually everything electronic is manufactured there) AIOs and batteries, each with their own communication protocols, programing parameters, and individual peculiarities. I say this with all modesty and humility, that until a few years ago, it was a rare troubleshooting situation that I needed guidance from tech support for most anything. Now the extent of my prowess has been reduced to: "power cycle" it and if that doesn't work call tech support, and then be prepared for a frustrating, protracted, and costly in terms of my time, experience. I also wonder if it's sort of a "race to the bottom" (thanks for that one Bob-O) as far a quality goes. Discover discontinued it's AES battery which I think was the pinnacle, and replaced it with the Helios (which I have high hopes for). I'm hoping it's not a clone of all the others that are similar and I understand that the AES simply couldn't compete. Just my mind dump sans edit On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 8:17 AM Jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com<mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote: Fortress and eg4 both use the same basic LUX made inverters. Sol ark is made by DEYE. On May 11, 2025, at 8:04 AM, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: How does the Lux, Envy, and Sol-Ark compare to Midnite's AIO? I was all on board the Midnite train but I'm coming to the conclusion that they released it prematurely. Glitchy and Quirky. On Sun, May 11, 2025 at 7:40 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: One of the things I like about the LUX is that you can do programming with the built in display. The online monitoring is good as Maverick says. I also think it's way more accurate as well. The LUX 12kw is a solid unit. Jay On May 11, 2025, at 7:35 AM, Maverick Brown via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: William, I have both the ENVY and Radian (and XW at my own home). The ENVY online experience is great. It may have replaced the Sol-Ark online monitoring as my favorite. (I have installed about 20 Sol-Arks and they also have tons of data and a great overall online experience). The data collected by ENVY is far greater than OpticsRE, many more parameters are saved. ENVY also has a working smart phone App that shows more data than the now offline / defunct OpticsRE app. OpticsRE does log enough data to understand that the system is functioning, but the additional AC data and way the information is presented gives ENVY far superior results. I do lean more towards the way OpticsRE allows editing parameters on the Devices section. That's likely because I am more familiar with the terminology. But, The ENVY Inverter has a built in display / touch screen that allows you to edit all of the values and make the system work without any internet / wireless / bluetooth connection. That is a great fall back. I am used to the MATE3s, but new customers have a crazy time with learning how it works and where values are able to be changed. The ENVY App bridges that gap! Now the dream part is that since Outback is now owned by the same people that also sell the EG4 18kPV (which is also made by Luxpower just like the ENVY), the best of both worlds could come about == more data collected and an available and a solid smart phone app for customers that want such a thing. The screenshot of the app is straight forward and the tabs at the bottom show charts, alarms and settings. The screenshot for desktop is very detailed and you can scroll down on the first page and get 3-4 screenfuls of data for just about anything you want to know. Let me know if you have a specific question, I can give you a comparison. <Screenshot 2025-05-11 at 9.11.09 AM.png> <IMG_3420.PNG> Maverick Brown Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. • Solar Commander Remote Power • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection maver...@mavericksolar.com<mailto:maver...@mavericksolar.com> 512-460-9825 On May 10, 2025, at 9:58 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: Bought a VFXR3648 and two FXR3048s recently. They actually worked! Miracle. The client for which I am suggesting an Envy 12 instead of new FM100s is really attached to Optics. Now that Optics is unreliable it is easier to suggest an alternative. I'd like to hear about the Envy on-line interface. Is it ok? William Miller Miller Solar.com 805-438-5600 www.millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/> On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 12:23 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: As a follow up. Has anyone purchased a new OB inverter or CC or mate. I mean specifically remote new outback company. Jay On May 10, 2025, at 11:19 AM, Todd Cory via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> wrote: Well, Outback's Optics RE is down yet again, also the back up site too and also the users forum... which had a massive database of current and past problem solving archives. What a clusterfuck this new company is. Wise wrenches should beware of patronizing this obvious sinking ship. Todd <img-0.png> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail. <img-0.png> _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org<http://re-wrenches.org/> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. 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When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. 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