ECT (GMT+2) Paris, France On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Mark Malewski <[email protected]>wrote:
> *Now we are in the process to re-unify both world and at the end of this > process, no difference should be left between the 2 world. * > > This ultimately would be the best for both sides. it's best to work > together in a collaborative effort, and not work against each other (as > seperate incompatible forks). > > > *> The CurrencyServer shouldn't be tight to any specific relase because of > above statement.* > I agree. The currency and land server functionality should be working on > both platforms/forks, we need to unify the two forks and draw the two forks > closer together. > > *> We can talk on IRc about that ;) > * > Yes, IRC would be good. Let me get a little bit of sleep, and we'll chat > in the morning. > > What time zone are you? I'm gmt/zulu -6 hours. (CST) > > It's almost 5am, I need a bit of sleep. ;-) > > Mark > > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 3:35 AM, Lc <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Due to some reasons, ReX forked 1 year back from opensim and develop their >> own release. Now we are in the process to re-unify both world and at the end >> of this process, no difference should be left between the 2 world. For more, >> look at http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/modrex/ >> >> The CurrencyServer shouldn't be tight to any specific relase because of >> above statement. >> >> The efficient move for the CurrencyServer will be to abstract the actual >> simulator's system. >> >> We can talk on IRc about that ;) >> >> SM >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:26 AM, Mark Malewski >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> MasterJ Chaplin, >>> >>> You have given me the information that I was looking for. That's exactly >>> what I needed to know. Now I'll just begin slowly working on something (as >>> a "proof of concept") and I'll document my work as I go, and later use it to >>> update the WIKI and write a tutorial. >>> >>> *you can have the money working but ONLY with OpenSim mode (for me Rex >>> mode don't show me any money ammount or something with )* >>> >>> Ok, I'm a bit confused. What exactly does this mean? Does this mean >>> that the realXtend server, and the real/native openSim (from the actual >>> OpenSim website) are currently two incompatible "forks"? >>> >>> Can anyone from the *realXtend* crew please chime in here, and confirm >>> this "known incompatibility" for me? Is this true? >>> >>> Is this a "*known compatibility issue*" and is it currently being >>> addressed? How quickly could we move forward with getting the realXtend >>> server build "compatible" with the OpenSim build? (or at least get the >>> currency and land functions working properly from within realXtend?) >>> I'm just getting my feet wet here, so if someone from the realXtend >>> crew could please chime in on how we can get these known >>> compatibility issues fixed/resolved (so at least I could begin to move >>> forward with a proof of concept model for the currency/land sales demo & >>> tutorial). >>> >>> It would be good just to try and get something up and running, so I can >>> open it up to the community for "open season" on security vulnerability >>> testing. >>> >>> At least let them "have at it" and mess with a simple beta test server, >>> so at least we can later discuss the security implications and ways around >>> them, and discuss ways to harden the system, and discuss "Standard Security >>> Procedures" and "Standard Best Practices" so new grid owners/users at least >>> have a good idea of the security implications, and ways to at least harden >>> the system a bit. Nothing will ever be 100% safe or secure, but we can at >>> least try to make sure that it is as "secure as possible" using industry >>> standard security practices. >>> >>> I would need to know more about the system, and at least get it up and >>> running (and functioning) first, before i could even speculate on how secure >>> it is, or how secure we could even make it. >>> >>> RealXtend crew, what is the timeline for making this happen? Is this >>> true that this functionality doesn't work on the realXtend version of the >>> server? >>> >>> How quickly can something like this be implemented/fixed? I do think >>> this is a key area that we may need to address. At least get the backend >>> server side working, so we can move forward with the front side interfaces, >>> and scripting, and security vulnerability testing. >>> >>> We'll need to some time to work on the front end of this, and we really >>> can't do much without a working backend. So we really need the server-side >>> fixed first. >>> >>> How soon can we have the "money" working in rex server? >>> >>> I'm still a bit confused. What is the difference between Opensim and >>> Rex? Is Rex a reference to a modified "fork" of the original OpenSim >>> project? If that is so, how far apart are the two projects currently, and >>> what is the timeline to get them integrated/inline again? So that "Rex" is >>> using a current/latest OpenSim build? >>> >>> How hard would it be to get the Money/Land portions of Rex >>> Server working? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 2:42 PM, MasterJ <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Actually if you add into OpenSim.ini this : >>>> [Economy] >>>> ; These economy values get used in the BetaGridLikeMoneyModule. - >>>> This module is for demonstration only - >>>> ; In grid mode, use this currency XMLRPC server. Leave blank for >>>> normal functionality >>>> CurrencyServer = "" >>>> ; "http://192.168.1.127/currency.php"; >>>> >>>> ; In grid mode, this is the land XMLRPC server. Leave blank for normal >>>> functionality >>>> LandServer = "" >>>> ;"http://192.168.1.127/landtool.php"; >>>> >>>> ; 45000 is the highest value that the sim could possibly report >>>> because of protocol constraints >>>> ObjectCapacity = 45000 >>>> >>>> ; Money Unit fee to upload textures, animations etc >>>> PriceUpload = 0 >>>> >>>> ; Money Unit fee to create groups >>>> PriceGroupCreate = 0 >>>> >>>> ; This is the account Money goes to for fees. Remember, economy >>>> requires that money circulates somewhere... even if it's an upload fee >>>> EconomyBaseAccount = 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 >>>> >>>> ; This is the type of user that will pay fees. >>>> ; Set this to 2 for users, estate managers and Estate Owners >>>> ; Set this to 1 for Users and Estate Managers >>>> ; Set this to 0 for Users only. >>>> ; -1 disables >>>> UserLevelPaysFees = -1 >>>> >>>> ; Amount to give to user as a stipend >>>> UserStipend = 1000 >>>> >>>> ; When a user gets low on money units and logs off, then logs back on, >>>> issue a new stipend if they have less money units then this >>>> ; amount. Be aware that the account money isn't stored anywhere so >>>> users will get a stipend if you restart the simulator >>>> IssueStipendWhenClientIsBelowAmount = 10 >>>> >>>> ; If this is true, the simulator will remember account balances until >>>> the simulator is shutdown or restarted. >>>> KeepMoneyAcrossLogins = true >>>> >>>> ; We don't really know what the rest of these values do. These get >>>> sent to the client >>>> ; These taken from Agni at a Public Telehub. Change at your own risk. >>>> ObjectCount = 0 >>>> PriceEnergyUnit = 100 >>>> PriceObjectClaim = 10 >>>> PricePublicObjectDecay = 4 >>>> PricePublicObjectDelete = 4 >>>> PriceParcelClaim = 1 >>>> PriceParcelClaimFactor = 1 >>>> >>>> PriceRentLight = 5 >>>> TeleportMinPrice = 2 >>>> TeleportPriceExponent = 2 >>>> EnergyEfficiency = 1 >>>> PriceObjectRent = 1 >>>> PriceObjectScaleFactor = 10 >>>> PriceParcelRent = 1 >>>> >>>> you can have the money working but ONLY with OpenSim mode (for me Rex >>>> mode don't show me any money ammount or something with ) >>>> >>>> MasterJ Chaplin >>>> >>>> On Dec 14, 3:34 pm, Peter Quirk <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > The opensim currency will not include a currency broker. It will be up >>>> > to others to create the payment systems that meet the regulatory >>>> > requirements. >>>> > Linden Lab will presumably strive to offer its services to the open >>>> > grid. >>>> > -- Peter >>>> > >>>> > On Dec 14, 9:21 am, Lc <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > but the main issue with currencies is liabilities. Don't forget we >>>> can >>>> > > HyperJump to any grids. That means the currencies should have the >>>> same value >>>> > > across the metaverses. >>>> > > Who will be the "Metaverse Central Bank" ? >>>> > > What will be the admissions fees for the grids ? >>>> > >>>> > > lot of questions and not so many answers... >>>> > >>>> > > Sacha >>>> > >>>> > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Peter Quirk < >>>> [email protected]>wrote: >>>> > >>>> > > > The underlying opnesim platform is developing an in-world currency >>>> > > > system. The proposal is covered inhttp:// >>>> opensimulator.org/wiki/Money. >>>> > > > Search the opensim-dev archives and inspect the code to see what >>>> has >>>> > > > been done so far and what still needs to be done. >>>> > > > -- Peter >>>> > >>>> > > > On Dec 14, 4:21 am, Mark Malewski <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > > > Is there currently an "in-world currency" system with realXtend? >>>> Is >>>> > > > > this being worked on, or is there a viable solution to this at >>>> the >>>> > > > > current time? >>>> > >>>> > > > > Also, is there any way to create an "in-world Karma" system? >>>> > >>>> > > > > These are my thoughts on such a system. >>>> > >>>> > > > > 1) Users are given a specific default Karma (maybe 100 pts by >>>> > > > > default). Then their Karma goes up or down based on in-world >>>> > > > > behavior. >>>> > >>>> > > > > For example, an avatar uses a gun, and shoots/kills another >>>> avatar >>>> > > > > (this in turn would result in a hearing/trial/conviction) and >>>> the >>>> > > > > avatar's Karma points would be deducted/reduced. >>>> > >>>> > > > > Some events could be done automatically. For example a user >>>> hits >>>> > > > > another user with a baseball bat (assault), and this could >>>> result in >>>> > > > > an automatic 20 point Karma reduction (for the user committing >>>> the >>>> > > > > crime). >>>> > >>>> > > > > Also a user driving a vehicle could strike objects (thus >>>> reducing his >>>> > > > > Karma by maybe 5 points for every object hit) and if the user >>>> struck >>>> > > > > or hit (or "killed") another user (hit them with their vehicle) >>>> then >>>> > > > > this would result in a "murder" and therefore the user's Karma >>>> would >>>> > > > > be reduced by 50 points. >>>> > >>>> > > > > I would like to have 2 different systems. I would like an "in >>>> world >>>> > > > > currency" and also an "in world Karma" system. >>>> > >>>> > > > > Any ideas as to how this could be done, or implemented from >>>> within >>>> > > > > realXtend? >>>> > >>>> > > > > I believe it would help make the Virtual Worlds more accurate >>>> > > > > (especially with gaming and rating users) as each user would >>>> have a >>>> > > > > "Karma" ranking. >>>> > >>>> > > > > The owner of the world could give certain organizations (such as >>>> > > > > churches) maybe 1,000,000 Karma points, and then these churches >>>> could >>>> > > > > give out the Karma points (to virtual users) like maybe give >>>> them 10 >>>> > > > > Karma points for attending a Virtual church service on Sunday, >>>> and >>>> > > > > users can accrue Karma points (for good behavior). >>>> > >>>> > > > > Some users may help with public building, or help with "peace >>>> keeping" >>>> > > > > of the virtual world (and be assigned/given additional Karma >>>> points). >>>> > >>>> > > > > It would be similar to like a "Positive Feedback" system that >>>> you see >>>> > > > > on E-bay. >>>> > >>>> > > > > You purchase something from someone, and the seller could give >>>> the >>>> > > > > buyer a Karma point (for a good transaction). >>>> > >>>> > > > > I supposed the "Karma points" could be given to one another (as >>>> > > > > tokens?) similar to a currency. Not to be confused with >>>> currency, >>>> > > > > because in-world currency would be completely different, but >>>> this >>>> > > > > "Karma" system would just be a way to gauge people's in-world >>>> behavior >>>> > > > > (as good vs. bad). >>>> > >>>> > > > > So users that use foul language, or are disruptive, or >>>> participate in >>>> > > > > fraudulent business practices they could be given "bad Karma" >>>> > > > > rankings, so that other users see that these users have a LOW >>>> Karma >>>> > > > > ranking (or even a NEGATIVE Karma number). So they know to be >>>> > > > > cautious, and stay clear of some of these "bad users". >>>> > >>>> > > > > We have "good people" and "bad people" in life. Such is life. >>>> But >>>> > > > > how do we rank users in a Virtual world? >>>> > >>>> > > > > I believe a "Karma points" system would at least help >>>> differentiate >>>> > > > > some of the good/better citizens from the not-so-good citizens. >>>> Just >>>> > > > > as online feedback is used to rate products, or rate sellers, or >>>> even >>>> > > > > rate buyers... I believe an "In-world Karma" system, could be >>>> used to >>>> > > > > rate citizens. >>>> > >>>> > > > > Any ideas as to how I could implement such a system from within >>>> > > > > realXtend? >>>> > >>>> > > > > I'd like to implement both a in-world currency system, and an >>>> in-world >>>> > > > > Karma system. (That could be used later for gaming, trading, >>>> and >>>> > > > > various other things in-world). >>>> > >>>> > > > > For example in gaming, if you run over, or strike an object >>>> (possibly >>>> > > > > give all objects a "bump value"), so if you strike an object, >>>> then you >>>> > > > > get a certain number of Karma points deducted. >>>> > >>>> > > > > Like if you hit someone (punch, hit, or hit with a baseball bat, >>>> or >>>> > > > > shoot with a gun, etc.) then each object you hit, would subtract >>>> Karma >>>> > > > > points (based on the "bump object properties"). For example, if >>>> a car >>>> > > > > was given a "bump object value of 20 karma points" and you hit >>>> the car >>>> > > > > with a baseball bat (a sound effect could be played upon bump), >>>> and >>>> > > > > also visible damage could be displayed (upon bump) and also 20 >>>> karma >>>> > > > > points could be deducted from the user's score/Karma point >>>> rankings >>>> > > > > (for damaging a vehicle). >>>> > >>>> > > > > This could be applied to guns, baseball bats, or various other >>>> in- >>>> > > > > world weapons (even fist fighting, punching, kicking, etc.). >>>> > >>>> > > > > Like maybe there would need to be two different fields, a "bump >>>> value" >>>> > > > > and also a "lethal value". So a fist would have a much less >>>> "lethal >>>> > > > > value" than a gun, or a baseball bat. But also certain objects >>>> like a >>>> > > > > car would have a much higher "bump value" than somelike like a >>>> garbage >>>> > > > > can (less valuable). >>>> > >>>> > > > > So that way if you kick a garbage can, you may only lose 1 Karma >>>> point >>>> > > > > (very little damage to the garbage can, and the garbage can is >>>> of very >>>> > > > > little value). But if you kick a car, then you cause a little >>>> bit of >>>> > > > > damage to the car, but the bump value of the car/vehicle is much >>>> > > > > higher than a garbage can (car is more valuable), so it would >>>> affect >>>> > > > > your Karma ranking more. So maybe kicking a car would result in >>>> 2 >>>> > > > > Karma point reduction. >>>> > >>>> > > > > A baseball bat would have a much more "lethal value" thus if you >>>> > > > > strike a garbage can with a baseball bat, it would display more >>>> > > > > damage, and it would also subtract 2 Karma points (instead of 1 >>>> Karma >>>> > > > > point) because you have used a much more lethal force (higher >>>> "lethal >>>> > > > > value" based on the weapon). >>>> > >>>> > > > > So basically every object, and every weapon in the world could >>>> be >>>> > > > > assigned a "bump value" and a "lethal value" (for weapons). >>>> > >>>> > > > > Standard weapons such as foot, kick, punch, hit, slap would all >>>> be >>>> > > > > assigned a "lethal value" of 1. >>>> > >>>> > > > > But using various weapons would have a much higher "lethal >>>> > > > > value" (assigned to each of the weapons). >>>> > >>>> > > > > So in-world "gun shops" could actually sell weapons to citizens. >>>> Good >>>> > > > > honest citizens could actually tote a weapon around >>>> (responsibly). >>>> > >>>> > > > > But if that weapon were used to shoot a Garbage can then they >>>> would >>>> > > > > lose 1 Karma point. If the weapon were used to shoot a car, >>>> then the >>>> > > > > person would lose maybe 10 Karma points. If the weapon were >>>> used to >>>> > > > > shoot a person, then the person would lose maybe 50 Karma >>>> points. If >>>> > > > > the weapon were used to shoot a police officer, then the person >>>> would >>>> > > > > lose maybe 100 Karma points. >>>> > >>>> > > > > Do you understand what I am saying? >>>> > >>>> > > > > Is there any way to implement some form or "Karma System" (for >>>> in- >>>> > > > > world behavior) and also an in-world currency system? >>>> > >>>> > > > > So that way users could give each other in-world currency, >>>> (which >>>> > > > > could be used to purchase things like a car, or furniture), and >>>> also >>>> > > > > an in-world Karma system (which could be used to reward users >>>> for good >>>> > > > > behavior and punish users for in-world bad behavior). >>>> > >>>> > > > > Any ideas on how such a system could be implemented? >>>> > >>>> > > > > Thanks, >>>> > >>>> > > > > Mark- Hide quoted text - >>>> > >>>> > > - Show quoted text - >>>> >>> >> >> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ this list: http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend realXtend home page: http://www.realxtend.org/ -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
