Laurie,
I know the incident was WA but when you talk about police being racist,
there is no jurisdiction! My intention was to point out to you that not all
police services should be tarnished with the same brush, same thing goes for
not all officers should be tarnished with the same brush.
It's the same when people accuse Aborigines of doing something wrong when in
actual fact it is merely a handful. People tarnish them all with the same
brush for the mistakes of a few. Why should those who are 'nice' suffer
because of others who are not?
Jim O'Sullivan was an excellent commissioner. How do you think he did not
succeed in reducing racism in the QPS? I'm very curious to know.
And personally I find your below comment extremely offensive and prejudiced:
LAURIE SAID: "...I believe that much of this racism is caused by recruiting
too many cadets from rural areas----the reasons given for this practice are
manifold, but the results are there for all to see."
>From this comment one can only assume that you have a contact in the police
Internal Affairs and CJC of police services and can look up the record of
every officer who is investigated for some racial offence and discover that
they all come from the bush?!?!?!?! How else would you come to perceive that
'rural' officers are the racists, as you so seem to think from your comment?
I don't understand how you can make such a comment about officers from rural
areas. Have you individually met every officer from a rural area or are you
basing this accusation on the attitude of a few you happen to meet??? It's
unfair to say something like what you said.
If the results are all there for us to see - then show me what you've got.
Just because people come from rural areas doesn't mean they treat people
with contempt. I'd like to meet the city folk you obviously think are so
friendly and non-racist!!
Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Laurie Forde
Sent: Wednesday, 6 December 2000 10:58 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Claims racism is behind indigenous jailing
Karen,
The particular incident occurred in W.A.-----I presume Jim O'Sullivan had
nothing to do with the appointment of the W.A. Police service recruiting
officer.
>From where I sit, whoever leaves the recruiting officer in that position
either intends the W.A. Police Service to be racist or is a gross
incompetent---the results are the same.
I agree with you, that in Queensland, O'Sullivan tried his best to reduce
racism in the QPS ----I don't believe he succeeded to a major degree---the
original point I made was that I believe that much of this racism is caused
by recruiting too many cadets from rural areas----the reasons given for this
practice are manifold, but the results are there for all to see.
Laurie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crook, Karen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 12:44 AM
Subject: RE: [recoznet2] Claims racism is behind indigenous jailing
> Laurie,
> By your following comment: It is therefore safe to presume that the
> Commissioner has appointed other racists to vital positions---why would he
> stop at the recruiting
> officer?----ergo, he intends that the Service be racist.
>
> After reading this it is fair to assume that you never knew former
> Commissioner Jim O'Sullivan of the Qld police service. If you did you
would
> know that this description you have just given would be so far from the
> truth in describing him that he'd probably sue you for defamation - and
win.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Laurie Forde
> Sent: Sunday, 3 December 2000 2:45 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Claims racism is behind indigenous jailing
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Crook, Karen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:18 PM
> Subject: RE: [recoznet2] Claims racism is behind indigenous jailing
>
>
> > I don't blame Ayour friend for walking out of the interview, I bloody
> would
> > have walked out also.
>
> I think that this comment by Karen points up the problem with the
> rationalisation of racist actions by a great many Australians,
well-meaning
> or not.
>
> Karen says that if this happened to her she would have "walked out also".
> Well, I think you'd be doing a lot of be doing a lot of walking out ,
> Karen.
>
>
> The incident described by Jim is not an isolated incident, it can't
be ---It
> is reasonable to assume that every time an Aboriginal person applies to
this
> recruiting officer he or she will be be treated in the same racist manner
.
>
> Karen says, "You can't blame the Police Service for every police officer's
> actions"--- -Karen, this "every police officer" is the Recruiting
> Sergeant----this is his approach to Aboriginal applicants----he looks at
> them as only fit for" tracking"----this racist recruiting sergeant is the
> W.A.Police Service Commissioner's idea of a good recruiting
> officer----otherwise he wouldn't have the job.
>
> It is therefore safe to presume that the Commissioner has appointed other
> racists to vital positions---why would he stop at the recruiting
> officer?----ergo, he intends that the Service be racist .
>
> I think it's time we cut out the old wail of "Oh yes, this is a terrible
> case, but this is just another case of a few bad apples".
>
> As far as the Police Services go, because of community biases, government
> actions,a traditionally racist police culture, and covert employment
> policies that perpetuate that culture, the police barrells are just about
> full of rotten apples where discrimination against Aboriginal people is
> concerned.
>
>
> Laurie
>
> Laurie and Desley Forde
> Email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Without a treaty, which spells out the obligations and rights of both
> parties, there can be no Reconciliation in Australia----Geoff Clark.
>
>
> -------------------------
> >
> >
> > JIM SAID: There's nothing necessarily wrong with the apprenticship model
> as
> > a mode of
> > entry, it just MUST be complemented by a graduate entry, and senior
> > appointment system from - without the culture - so ably defined and
> > analysed by Fitzgerald. I'm told now some 60% of police recruits to
Hendon
> > in the UK (The
> > Metropolitan Police College) are university graduates before they
commence
> > police training.
> >
> >
> > Jim, I'd like to know what you find so wrong with people being
university
> > graduates?? The QPS asks that recruits have some, or completed, study of
a
> > degree and have relevant life experience. It was changed to try and find
> > people who instead of being fresh faced out of uni thinking they knew it
> > all. It was best to have people who could show they could handle the
study
> > capacity - vital for being promoted through the ranks and showing
> capability
> > to handle the job as you progress - and people who had lived a bit i.e
> > experience in military, medical, dealing with people, social work,
> > interaction with different people etc etc.
> >
> > Also, if you were to find out what is available in the way of
traineeships
> > and training for ATSI people interested in joining the Service, whether
as
> > an officer, PLO or other, you will see that the QPS is by no means a
> racist
> > body. However, havign said that, that does not mean there are not some
bad
> > apples in the cart and these people are often discovered and dealt with.
> > There is no place for them in the Service. Nobody should be inhumanely
and
> > unfairly treated because of the way they were born.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim Duffield
> > Sent: Friday, 1 December 2000 5:28 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; DAUGHTER; DEMSEN
> > Subject: RE: [recoznet2] Claims racism is behind indigenous jailing
> >
> >
> > On 29 Nov 2000, at 23:40, Crook, Karen wrote:
> >
> > > Right, and when was the last time you worked for the QPS recruiting
> > section
> > > Laurie??
> > >
> > > karen
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Laurie Forde
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 29 November 2000 11:10 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Claims racism is behind indigenous jailing
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe there is an unofficial policy in most police forces,
certainly
> > > Queensland , to recruit as many cadets as possible from rural
> areas---the
> > > reasons given are manifold, but in my opinion, , this policy results
in
> an
> > > inordinate number of police officers who have been raised in an
> atmosphere
> > > of overt racism towards Aboriginal people----this attitude, passed
down
> > > around the kitchen table, is very difficult to overcome with the kind
of
> > > training young cadets are given at police academys which are often run
> by
> > > people from the same racist background.
> > >
> > > Laurie
> > >
> > > Laurie and Desley Forde
> >
> > Dunno about the country recruiting Laurie, but a Yinjibarndi man living
> > with me as he completed his BSoc Sci degree some seven years ago went to
> > the WA police academy for a recruiting interview by the recruiting
> > Sergeant.
> >
> > This man was initiated to his Law and was annually completing his path
> > through manhood, spoke three languages before English, had served in the
> > Army Reserve for six years, and was most lterate in English - and was
very
> > black.
> >
> > Given that the WA police had this opportunity to recruit a graduate -
> novel
> > - the first question asked by the WA Police Recruitin Sergeant was:
> >
> > "'Ere, can you track?"
> >
> > As he walked out of the interview the Man of the Pilbara, the country
> where
> > they struck for equal wages in 1946, responded:
> >
> > "Sergeant, maybe I can, maybe I can't, but one thing I do do is graduate
> > from university. Good afternoon"
> >
> > Read Chapter 7 of the Fitzgerald Report - "The Police Culture." And
> > nothing has changed since! You must enter at the bottom as a drone, be
> > trained by the corrupt, and then your aspirations to "command" may be
met,
> > in time and with the approval of the corrupt. Its a tribal management
> > model that has be discarded throughout the world.
> >
> > There's nothing necessarily wrong with the apprenticship model as a mode
> of
> > entry, it just MUST be complemented by a graduate entry, and senior
> > appointment system from - without the culture - so ably defined and
> > analysed by Fitzgerald.
> >
> > I'm told now some 60% of police recruits to Hendon in the UK (The
> > Metropolitan Police College) are university graduates before they
commence
> > police training.
> >
> > Us colonists have a lot yet to achieve, but when our allegedly social
> > justice party has its roots in the disenfranchisement of "blacks" under
> > some nondescript tree stump in Queensland, we've a l-o-n-g way to go!
> >
> > CYA
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
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