Susanne, > it was not a petition - u were not presented with any petition at yr > meeting!!!!! have u lost the submission? if not read it again and u will see No I have not lost the petition (note the wording there) It was a petition and it was not presented it was thrust, if anything. > > 'sending me alone' refered to going to yr meeting - nothing at all to do with > my private email to someone else - which u have read and responded to Private correspondence which I was given to read by the recipient and asked for my response. Paul, at that time was living in my unit and he thought I should have a right of response to intimations, of racism, etc that were contained in the document. > > what was sent to yr 'what now for nsw aborigines' meeting was not off topic - > read it!!! It was off topic in that this Association had planned and implemented a public meeting, had decided the agenda, and had invited guest speakers to reply to that agenda. Your rude intrusion into the meeting - on more than one occassion - with your own immutable style (sic) and insistence that we should all stop what we were doing in order to listen to you (and with that agree with you as it seems that if one does not agree with you then one is racist) was boorish, rude and intolerant in itself. > many at the meeting insisted that ray read it out - finally, at nearly the end > of the meeting - ray called for a vote from the floor because of pressure from > those gathered - There was no insistence. There were suggestions from some of those present - all of which were non-indigenous. I point out that there were qyuite a few indigenous people there who objected to the petition and you forcing that petition on us for the same reasons that I objected - because they did not know, and still do not know who you represent. u and ray were the only two who didn't want it read out as the > show of hands revealed Once again not true as I have stated in previous correspondence on this issue. However there was a majority at the meeting (once again non-indigenous) who voted to have the PETITION read out. And in a spirit of democracy we did so. - u both blocked it to the last - so much for yr claims > to democractic process - Is not the democratic process to about allowing people to choose and then go with the majority?? - or is the democratic process mean that people must agree with you?? After a vote which chose to read out your petition it was duly read out. I tend to think that is democracy. I also tend to think that democracy is about people having the right to voice their opinion - and I did so, and will always do so. Whether it agrees with your philisophy or not. There is also a thing about self-determination for Aboriginal people I seem to have heard of at times. The meeting was called by an indigenous organisation, it was interrupted by a non-indigenous person CLAIMING to be acting on behalf of indigenous people - but without a shred of proof for that claim. The indigenous people at that meeting were not listened to due to, in my opinion, a knee jerk reaction by some non-indigenous people that if it SEEMS to have black support then it must be right and good. In many ways I consider this to be a kind of reverse racism and paternalism. I might add that I pointed this out to members (non-indigenous) of this Association at our next meeting and have often been very vocal on this issue. It is in the signer being discriminatory about what is being signed and having full information about what they are signing not just signing just because it seems to be from a black group. IF you have such a constituency and the focus is on the Block then others should realise that there are also other indigenous constituents on the Blocvk who have a differing opinion of what should happen there and they should give them due credence to listen before they consider signing anything. it was begrudgingly read out with contempt and sarcasm > and slights about anarchist web spaces ... rather than focusing on what was > said in the submission I might add the PETITION was unfocussed in many ways. Although I agree with the sentiment about bringing back Pemulwhuys head - what in bloody hell has that got to do with the Block?? The petition was not a good one for that very reason. It was dissipated in focus by trying to be all things to all people. The sarcasm (your interpretation) was indeed comment on how some people believe they have the right to make demands on others because of their own obsessions rather than for logic. > > if u think what happened at yr meeting was democratic - then there is not much > hope for democracy - the only hint of democracy was when the audience pressured > for it to be read > and i call this courage, not democracy which would have required no pressure Democracy was served in that a vote was taken and the petition was read - self determination was not served in that the voters did not take heed of those indiegnous people present who objected to the petition being read. > > there is solid proof (video) of what happened at yr 'public' meeting, and the > agro and silencing that abounded - anyone who wasn't there and feels that they > now need some tangible 'evidence' let me know and i will try to find the video > - if u weren't there that is There is indeed a video. I have viewed it a few times in order to clarify what went on. The "agro" came from you and no other. Finding the video is very easy. The video is made by us and we make a presentation of the video to those who offer to speak at our meetings. It is not generally for sale. However, if you like I would allow an independent person to view the video to make comment on this issue. They will then see your caricature-like carrying on. > > a contribution for a tape, copying and mailing it would be appreciated as i am > not funded, or send a blank video (vhs) to PO Box 1 Eora Country (Annandale > NSW) 2038 with stamped addressed envelope and allow time to locate it (have to > find the person) then copy it See above. I might add that the Association is also not funded - but we get things done. > > my post to this list about the grandmothers' petition has nothing to do with > the isja - isja is just one org that wont support it - not because they doubt > me i think as isja didn't support an active postion on the block before meeting > me You are right about that. ISJA does not have a position on the happenings there, due to often explained reasons. However, most members of the Association do have positions and some of them even actively support the differing groups on the Block. They of course have the right to do so. As to myself, I even have a position on the Block and have written articles on it for the Newtown Bridge. You might find them interesting - although you will deem them to be racist and undemocratic because they do not necessarily agree with you or your petition. > > again > individuals interested can send their individual contact and affiliation > details which will be forwarded on - if anyone wants to put this invitation > into a newsletter - go ahead - would be please to get lots of people who are > interested in the ISSUES that affect daily life on the block I would also encourage interested persons or organisations to investigate the ISSUES that affect daily life on the Block - from EVERY angle and then make their own decisions on any actions they would like to take, either individually or organisationally. > > for u personally don - i am happy to meet u on the block for discussion - let > me know when u are available - spare the list the details please and advise me > directly I will most certainly accept this invitation. Thank you for your invitation to go down to the Block. I would have felt 'disadvantaged' without it. I go down to the Block on a very regular basis in fact. > > can we discuss on this list, issues that have been raised on the block? > the reasons that isja is not supporting the block would be a good start - i > don't mean because of division (individuals) within the group - i mean the > reasons in relation to the issues and non support > I leave it up to the list as to the first question. You can discuss anything about ISJA that you wish. However, we will do what we believe to be the correct thing to do and will not be swayed from that course. Is there an intimation in this paragraph that we must, in some way, be 'shown the path of the true and righteous' or something like that. Do you think that this list will, or has some authority to change ISJA's direction. Sorry, only members have the right to do that and although ISJA membership is open to all and contribution is open to all, the management committee (with a majority of indigenous members to ensure self-determination) makes the final decision about direction. And in fact ISJA does support the Block - only not as an organisation (as I pointed out before we have members who have extensive relations with groups and individuals who reside at the Block). I believe that is called democracy. We have members who have different ideas and those members have decided that individuals make their own decisions as to how that support will occur. In short susanne I believe you are attempting to brow beat any person or organisation who does not agree with you position on the Block. I will not accept that you are the end all and be all of what is right and good for people at the Block. And I am not trying to justify my position or ISJA's position. I have constantly said that I have problems with your so-called petition and have stated this quite clearly. I have also suggested that members of this list do what they want, but I have also suggested that they be fully informed of the issues and problems that are inherent with the situation at the Block. Your rather hysterical rantings, half-truths, talking and writing in slogans with an emotional content designed to sway people from logic can only do your constituents (if you really have any) more harm than good. However, I do not believe you really have the citizens of the Block in your focus. I believe this is a more personal crusade to try to place yourself firmly in the Aboriginal debate. Josephine (our Vice President) who invited you to one of our general meetings felt shamed by your boorish, demanding, rude behaviour. After that meeting I questioned your motives and I still do. Also I am curious if the two words below should go together. > cheerless > susanne > > ------------------------------------------------------- > RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ > To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body > of the message, include the words: unsubscribe announce or click here > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce > This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the > copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair > use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without > permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." > > RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/ > ------------------------------------------------------- RecOzNet2 has a page @ http://www.green.net.au/recoznet2 and is archived at http://www.mail-archive.com/ To unsubscribe from this list, mail [EMAIL PROTECTED], and in the body of the message, include the words: unsubscribe announce or click here mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=unsubscribe%20announce This posting is provided to the individual members of this group without permission from the copyright owner for purposes of criticism, comment, scholarship and research under the "fair use" provisions of the Federal copyright laws and it may not be distributed further without permission of the copyright owner, except for "fair use." RecOzNet2 is archived for members @ http://www.mail-archive.com/
