Lance,
Lance Kelly wrote:
> Trudy the trouble is no one accept the politically motivated corect use it.
> Walk out on the street and listen to any conversation and the denigration
> and insulting manner that people use.
I agree, this happens all the time.
> Oh sure people put their other hat on in an exclusive environment and try to
> use the political terminology when in the presence of another but listen to
> what they say when not in the presence of others and I ask the question is
> this more about values and beliefs than actual activism.
Depends on what result the language has. Take police for instance. In their own
environment they swear all
the time and then they go out an uphold the peace by arresting Aboriginal people who
use the same language
that the police have been using all day.
Now, I would not bother about how the police talk but it is certainly worth a fight to
get justice for
Aboriginal people who are jailed for using the same language within earshot of the
police.
> I agree with you in most of your statements, but the point I am trying to
> make its all about lack of concern this politically correct terminology.
> In this instance at some time in the past a man was called "Nigger" Brown in
> a time when it was an accepted form of expression as was many other words
> and types of language.
This is true. And in many places they are trying to censor books which contain the
language of times past
when it was acceptable to use that language. I don't agree with revisionist history in
this way.
> The trouble is as we become globalised through economy and society everyone
> is losing their ability to freely express themselves and whatever we say and
> do cannot not be expected to please everyone the world would be a very quiet
> place if this was to be because some dominant philosophy would say "Ok world
> you cant say this word any more or that word."
It is not through globalisation that this is happening but through understanding that
these kinds of words
are offensive. They have always been offensive - even 200 years ago - but then the
offended people had no
power and the rest of the people were not aware or did not care that it was offensive.
They considered it
their right to use those terms because they saw themselves as superior. Today,
however, many people do
realise that these words are offensive and hurtful and they rightly feel that they
should no longer offend
people on purpose. Once it is known that people are offended a caring person doesn't
use them anymore if
they believe in justice for all.
> If we could do this it would be great, but we cant and its not a realistic
> expectation to expect people to change so much that they must not say one
> word or the other.
We can try to educate them.
> I get castigated just for saying bloke and sheila which for 200 years of
> development of the australian colloquialism has been an acceptable form or
> words to use amongst friends. However its ok if I say Guys which is an
> american colloquialism.
> Im saying Trudy we should be trying to change the world as it exists here
> and now not what has happened in the past, the past is impossible to change.
I agree with you on that.
> We can reconstruct it with all these new ideas about how we see the world,
> but basically it is the same world with the same problems just more of em'
> (the problems I mean).
> A product is called fat free I find that repulsive as Im a fat person can
> you change that for me?
Why do you feel offended by that when the 'fat' they speak of is not the same?
> Ned Kelly was a Bushranger and a bad bugger, I dont like that fact but Im
> still with the surname Kelly.
He wasn't bad in everybody's eyes. From what I understand there were a lot of lies
told about him. The
police didn't invent verballing yesterday.
> People still call me Ned occasionally.
> Does an insult hurt as much as being denied medical asistance when it is
> freely available to others around Australia.
I imagine that in some cases and for some people it can. And where we should insist on
access to quality
health care for all we can also insist that hurtful language not be used against
people. We don't have to
settle for one or the other. Especially when one costs nothing and only takes a little
effort and caring.
> Language does hurt and insults hurt as well, however how much time and
> resource do we want to waste on a word when the quite significant real
> issues beyond words that need action.
> Thats all Im saying - Actions always speak Louder than Words.
And sometimes the actions require a word not be used when someone says they are hurt
and offended by it.
Trudy
>
>
> Regards, Lance.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Trudy and Rod Bray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 6:52 PM
> Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
>
> > Lance,
> >
> > What some people call 'political correctness' others call 'good manners'
> and a "respect for others'
> > feelings".
> > For some people to feel that they have the right to denigrate and insult
> and hurt people through the
> > language they use because they don't want to temper their expressions and
> then fall back on 'freedom of
> > speech' is one of the most ill-mannered and callous things one can do.
> > Language and how one uses it can reach out and heal or it can hurt and
> destroy. Language is important and is
> > one of the ways people express to the world how they see things.
> > If the language one uses hurts and insults others then that person is
> showing the world their lack of
> > concern for others and often, their racism. This has nothing to do with
> political correctness but plain
> > humanity or the lack of it.
> >
> > Trudy
> >
> > Lance Kelly wrote:
> >
> > > Theres a simple answer to your dilemma acknowledge your difference and
> > > accept that you as everyone else in society have inbuilt racism your
> > > inability to accept others choice of words (and thas all they are is
> words)
> > > suggests you have a bigger problem and that is as a result of this so
> called
> > > "politically correct" society which lacks the decency of people to
> express
> > > themselves in anyway they wish.
> > > If they have made a perosnal statement to you about your colour or creed
> > > your anger and frustration is acceptable. But if you chastising society
> > > becuase its celebrates the difference of people and the ability of
> > > marketeers and economic minded people to express and advertise
> themselves to
> > > sell product then I find your arguments difficult to accept.
> > > We are all differentiated from people individually, collectively as a
> race
> > > and as next door neighbours.
> > > Politically correctedness is not the way society is heading and rather
> than
> > > segregating people by controlling speech, we should be grasping the
> words
> > > and celibrating the fact that by the name redskin, blackskin, whiteskin,
> > > yellowskin or any other skin that people are at least being acknowledged
> for
> > > who we are.
> > > Be proud and happy of who you are first, show by actions and affirmation
> > > that you are proud to be who you are then you are in front of the
> racists
> > > who slander people and denigrate them. You are better than that. I say
> > > DOWN with political correctedness.
> > > Regards, Lance.
> > >
> > > "For equal society based on active particpation and not words."
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Sioux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, August 01, 1999 5:45 PM
> > > Subject: [recoznet2] Redskins? Blacksins? Niggers?
> > >
> > > > Hau kola-pi,
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought. I have recently been abused in a store when asking
> fro
> > > the
> > > > removal of an item which I find grossly offensive from the counter
> top.
> > > >
> > > > In fact< I have had various reactions when I have come across this
> before
> > > > and spoken to the store owner or counter person.
> > > >
> > > > The offensive item are candies called 'Redskins'. A kind of red chewy
> > > > thing! As a Lakhota person I find these items extremely offensive,
> and
> > > > whenever I come across them I always like to approach the store owner
> or
> > > > sales person, and explain just how I feel.
> > > >
> > > > Now, I guess many of you are going to think I am being silly over
> this,
> > > but
> > > > I find this a very bad example to set to children whom I presume would
> be
> > > > tha main consumers of this candy. What kind of a message is it
> sending to
> > > > these childrem? There is even a picture I think of an 'indian' on the
> > > > wrapper!
> > > >
> > > > Each time I approach about this problem, I speak calmly and quietly,
> and
> > > > attempt to explain why I am offended and ask if they would please
> remove
> > > > the item form display and preferably from stock.
> > > >
> > > > I say to people, ok, how about if this thing was some kind of licorice
> > > > candy? Would they have it on their counter if it was called
> Blackskins or
> > > > Niggers? Of course, they usually protest that of course they wouldn't
> > > > thing of doing such a thing...............and of course they shouldn't
> > > either!
> > > >
> > > > My next reply then, is what is the difference between calling this red
> > > > chewy candy a 'Redskin' and a piece of licorice a Blackskin or a
> nigger?
> > > >
> > > > I must hasten to add here, that personally, I would never use such
> words,
> > > > they are not even in my vocabulary and are used here purely for the
> > > > comparison! My people and all my brothers and sisters of the native
> > > > american nations have strong feelings for our aboriginal brothers and
> > > > sisters here.
> > > >
> > > > But Please can someone see what I am saying?????>
> > > >
> > > > I am very sad today................
> > > >
> > > > Sioux
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> > --
> > ******************************************************
> > "... and so we're in a situation where we're far from Parliament or
> > Congress being there to protect people from the external powers,
> > i.e., to control the economy in the interest of the people. Parliament
> > is now there to control the people in the interests of the economy."
> >
> > --Tony Benn, MP, as quoted in the July 24, 1999, New York Times
> > ******************************************************
> >
> >
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>
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--
******************************************************
"... and so we�re in a situation where we�re far from Parliament or
Congress being there to protect people from the external powers,
i.e., to control the economy in the interest of the people. Parliament
is now there to control the people in the interests of the economy."
--Tony Benn, MP, as quoted in the July 24, 1999, New York Times
******************************************************
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