just a query what "treaties with ABoriginal groups" are you talking about?
Cause as far as I know there were no treaties in the form of what Geoff and
others are talking about.
Another query what "non-indigenous groups in Australia" need a treaty?
Treaty is to do with sovereignty, Aboriginal people don't occupy the land -
land owns Aboriginal people. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders were
invaded and dispossessed of their country, their land, and their spiritual
homes.
But I would like to see an honest discussion on how people really feel
about a Makarrata and whether the general public, those who walked and
those who didnt, know exactly what treaty could mean for Australia.
naomi
At 13:43 12/09/00 +1100, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Tim
>
>Getting the final form of the Treaty down will certainly not be easy, but I
>think that the ATSTC starting point of a national document , prepared by a
>national Aboriginal body creates a situation where negotiation can then
>take
>place with the government.
>
>Once this Treaty is signed ,Aboriginal groups as well as non-indigenous
>groups are then able to push their case for further treaties or agreements.
>
>Initially, before we can go on to further refinement, we need a treaty
>which is in lieu of the treaties that should have been made between the
>invaders and the various Aboriginal groups occupying this Country at that
>time.
>
>Until this is accomplished, no non-indigenous person has a legal or moral
>right to be here----our national sickness of shame and our consequent
>mistreatment of First Peoples will continue.
>
>Laurie
>
>Laurie and Desley Forde
>Email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Without a treaty, which spells out the obligations and rights of both
>parties, there can be no Reconciliation in Australia----Geoff Clark.
>
>
>---------------------------
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 11:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [recoznet2] Geoff Clark Speech: From here to a treaty
>
>
>> Hi Laurie,
>>
>> I agree about the lack of media coverage - all the more reason to be
>> grateful for forums like recoznet2 where 'unmediated' information gets
>> circulated.
>>
>> Clarke's discussion of sovereignty is fascinating and I only wish I knew
>> more about it - but at least he points me in the direction of further
>> research.
>>
>> I am sceptical about a few of his tentative proposals, in particular
>about
>a
>> 40 person treaty commission. It is the composition of it that worries
>me.
>> Picking up on your point of 'power to the people' I'd like to see 'the
>> people' represented on such a committee - in fact I'd like to see it
>consist
>> of nothing but 'the people'. The various sides of the argument could be
>> represented through their various experts and spokespeople, but they
>should
>> be there to inform 'the public's' judgements, not replace them. That is,
>> the committee should consist of a random selection of ordinary people
>with
>> power devolved to them.
>>
>> In reality, you'd probably need a number of such committees formed
>> throughout the country and then some sort of 'coming together' for a
>final
>> discussion. Might be slow and expensive but I'd warrant you'd get a
>better
>> result than you would through some sort of elite-driven constitutional
>> convention.
>>
>> Another of Clarke's points that was of interest was the following:
>>
>> <begin excerpt>
>> Firstly, I am convinced that there must be a national treaty put in
>> place before there is any devolution to local or regional treaties.
>>
>> During the 'Makarrata' debate conducted by the NAC there was a
>> widespread view that the various groups of Aboriginal and Torres Strait
>> Islander people should be negotiating, as sovereign people in there own
>> right, their own treaties, and without interference from other indigenous
>> groups.
>>
>> This became a problem at that time, in the 1980s, and contributed
>> (although perhaps in only a small way) to the lack of momentum in
>> obtaining government commitment to the treaty concept.
>>
>> Further the separate and uncoordinated negotiation of treaties has the
>> potential:
>>
>> * to result in unequal results for different groups,
>> * to lead to omission of fundamental provisions in treaties, and
>> * to cause a blockage through uncoordinated demands upon government
>> and professional services.
>>
>> A national treaty could and should serve as the standard-setting
>> document for local or regional treaties. It could ensure that basic
>> elements are addressed in all treaties. It could ensure that basic
>rights
>> and
>> provisions are delivered where other treaties have not or will not be
>> negotiated.
>>
>> If a national treaty is to be prepared then it is necessary that the
>> Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people become committed to that
>> purpose and remain disciplined in following a set course of procedure.
>>
>> It is counter-productive for people to 'splinter' from the national
>agenda,
>> to claim that they do not accept the national approach. This will
>> happen of course. There is no way to prevent it.
>> <end excerpt>
>>
>> I'd be interested to hear Tony Spiers view on this as he wrote forcefully
>a
>> while back:
>>
>> "The S-word for these groups is not "Sorry", it is "SOVEREIGNTY" -- not
>> as a grant of racist patronage from Her Majesty's Parliament, but
>something
>> we ourselves assert. We cannot afford to compromise on matters of basic
>> principle. THE ONLY TREATIES OUR GREAT GRANDCHILDREN WILL RESPECT US FOR
>> ARE THE TREATIES WE SIGN WITH EACH OTHER."
>>
>> A Treaty is the way to go, it seems to me, but the process of getting it
>is
>> just as important as the end result. It is this as much as anything that
>> still needs a lot of work.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
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