by the way: I like it that we discuss it here, that shows, that there is a need for discussions :)
On 19 Nov., 20:29, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues > relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying > to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs > and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion > - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my > thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. > > On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, "Adam Boyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. > > > You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve with > > your blog? > > > What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will serve? > > > Adam > > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my > > > responses > > > to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not "how do I do > > > this" type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a blog > > > format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its design. > > > > 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or will be, > > > addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws of the > > > software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for those > > > who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. > > > > 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the outcome > > > is. > > > > 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. > > > > 2008/11/18 theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > >> 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog posts, > > >> are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with the > > >> issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that have > > >> contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated that > > >> there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from the > > >> sounds of your comment "I cannot see how I could possibly get a > > >> positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are > > >> pretty fundamental" have you made a decision and will not be > > >> interested in the comments from people here? If you could let everyone > > >> be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate > > >> people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame war > > >> (as these things types of threads tend to become) > > > >> 2. "I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of these > > >> comments." RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next > > >> version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as the > > >> text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i believe > > >> around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on usability > > >> fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not address > > >> your issues "right now" but based on my previous comment other gripes > > >> like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been > > >> progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. > > > >> 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm > > >> unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to > > >> date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are generally > > >> provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to > > >> region) > > > >> 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible > > >> could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If > > >> people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the link. > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> - Morgan > > > >> On Nov 19, 1:01 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > Thanks for the thoughtful comments, "theham". I'll be dealing with a > > >> > lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: > > > >> > "all software is frustrating and flawed" - I think this is either not > > >> > the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I personally > > >> > make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor frustrating; > > >> > as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as "all > > >> > complex software is frustrating and flawed". I take the point, of > > >> > course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. > > > >> > "If you can please update your blog post" - you beat me to it - > > >> > thanks :) > > > >> > "Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently negative > > >> > experience?" - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm feeling > > >> > pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly get a > > >> > positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, are > > >> > pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text editor > > >> > creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last couple of > > >> > years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic markup, this > > >> > DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics I'll be > > >> > discussing which, I believe, will be more significant to some of you > > >> > (gripe #2 - just posted - probably doesn't fall under this category, > > >> > unfortunately). I'm talking core aspects of the RedDot CMS model which > > >> > I consider flawed. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some > > >> > notice of these comments. I would also love it if an alternative CMS > > >> > (preferably open source) could be suggested, or developed if there > > >> > really is a gap in the market. > > > >> > On Nov 18, 11:19 am, theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > > Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > >> > > I understand your pain and frustration. I'm a 3 y.o reddoter with a > > >> > > love/hate relationship with the wonderful world of reddot. I try to > > >> > > make sure that my clients never have to experience the hate and i > > >> > > deep > > >> > > down love the challenge. One thing i have noticed is that the biggest > > >> > > gripes i have with the product have been resolved progressively > > >> > > through the years. > > > >> > > 1. Complex workaround asp driven navigation has been replaced by > > >> > > (imo) > > >> > > a much flexible approach with navman > > >> > > 2. user syncronisation has been significantly improved with the user > > >> > > sync templates > > >> > > 3. page definitions which has simplified and sped up the building out > > >> > > of content > > > >> > > A soon to be resolved issue on my gripe list will be the text editor > > >> > > which is to be replaced by the telerik asp.net/ajax driven text > > >> editor > > >> > > (i heard this month but could be wrong). Though we also have had > > >> > > success with the ephox text editor and will be sad to see it go. > > > >> > > As a few people mentioned all software is frustrating and flawed.. a > > >> > > good example of this is that reddot will do things significantly > > >> > > better than other product and significantly worse than others. If > > >> > > reddot themselves don't move fast enough to bridge the gap that is > > >> > > where people on this group and consultants can assist. > > > >> > > A couple of things i think a lot of people on this group would > > >> > > appreciate if you could do: > > > >> > > 1. If you can please update your blog post with a link to this > > >> > > discussion. That way at least people who find blog post via google > > >> > > can > > >> > > come to this post to read an open discussion and maybe even find some > > >> > > solutions to the issues that you have experienced whilst working on > > >> > > reddot. > > > >> > > 2. Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently > > >> > > negative > > >> > > experience? it sounds like your implementation partner is not > > >> > > communicating or assisting as best as they can to help workaround > > >> > > these issues. How about changing the blog to a weekly/fortnightly > > >> > > reddot gripe challenge? Post your issues to your blog (if that is the > > >> > > format you prefer) and cross reference it to the group. That way we > > >> > > call all attempt to outdo each other in trying to find the most > > >> > > efficient and/or creative solution possible. I think we'll all learn > > >> > > a > > >> > > thing or two as we all try and outdo each other! Through that process > > >> > > i hope you will get the assistance you require. > > > >> > > Best of luck with your reddot or all other cms experiences in the > > >> > > future. > > > >> > > - Morgan > > > >> > > On Nov 18, 7:11 pm, Frederic Hemberger > > > >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> > > > On the last RedDot Usergroup meeting in Frankfurt (Germany), Mr. > > >> > > > Trageser (Head of RedDot support Germany) paid us a visit to talk > > >> > > > about the support process. RedDot is aware of the problems with > > >> their > > >> > > > knowlede bases. I say "bases" as he told us that some RedDot > > >> > > > departments in different countries set up their own knowledge base, > > >> > > > which is a problem for their own software consultants as well. > > >> > > > According to him, RedDot is already working to bring together all > > >> > > > pieces into a single source but he gave no estimations when this > > >> > > > process will be finished. I really hope to see it online when the > > >> new > > >> > > > release comes out in may. > > > >> > > > On the other hand, the RedDot Usergroup ( > > >>http://www.reddotusergroup.org) wants to collect hints and solutions in > > >> their > > >> > > > own wiki. Unfortunately, everyone wants to have benefit for their > > >> own > > >> > > > business, but most customers/partners are not willing to share or > > >> even > > >> > > > talk at all. People are more open than a few years ago but we're > > >> > > > far > > >> > > > away from a flow of information like in an open source community, > > >> for > > >> > > > example. > > > >> > > > On 18 Nov., 07:48, Ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RedDot CMS Users" group. To post to this group, send email to RedDot-CMS-Users@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/RedDot-CMS-Users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
