I've been reading this post with great interest. Not to discount anything you've said because they're all valid points but nothing you've said in your blog is a big secret. Any potential customer that talks to a reference site will more than likely find about the cons of RedDot. Indeed I know from experience that we have lost bids to other CMS products due to a customer's requirements around say usability. So the information is there for any company that does it's due diligence. On the flip side, other customers "love" the product and have been using it for years, it meets their needs and the misgivings of the product are either small enough not to worry about or there are sufficient work arounds.So in a nutshell, I agree with what you're saying in your blog in principle. I would also encourage you to keep writing your blog because the more information gets out there, the more likely we'll reach a critical mass where a few interested people snowball into a caring, sharing developer community. I would however also encourage you to write some articles on what you LIKE about RedDot as well. So without sounding like a sales person, I think your blog would benefit from a balanced dicussion because at the end of the day, you're positive and negative opinions as a customer TO a potential customer mean more than any sales person's spiel.
Cheers, Gavin 2008/11/20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I am blogging about some of the negative sides of RedDot to counter > balance the positives put forward by, among others, the RedDot sales > team themselves. I would not suggest anyone take either my or their > comments in isolation. I'm focussing on RedDot because that is the CMS > I've been forced to work with. I would be utterly astounded if an > existing RedDot customer read my blog and decided to stop using the > software purely based on its content. I merely wish to give all the > relevant information for potential customers, who have no opportunity > to trial the software themselves, and no other means of evaluating it. > > On Nov 19, 8:38 pm, "Adam Boyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Blogging exclusively about bugs and flaws isn't helpful to those who > might > > be evaluating RedDot. > > > > It's not fair to write about only the negative stuff without also > mentioning > > some of the positive things that RedDot does too. > > > > If you were honestly trying to foster a debate about what features a CMS > > should have, then why did you name your blog RedDotGripes? > > > > Isn't it more honest to say that you created your blog in the hopes that > it > > will pursuade current and/or potential RedDot customers against using > > RedDot? > > > > Isn't that the real purpose of your blog? > > > > Adam > > > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:29 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I'm trying to publicise some bugs, design flaws, and usability issues > > > relating to RedDot, for those who might be evaluating it. I'm trying > > > to foster debate about what kinds of features a modern day CMS needs > > > and how they might be implemented. I'm trying to gauge public opinion > > > - to what extent am I on my own here, and how much do others share my > > > thoughts? I'm trying to let off some steam. > > > > > On Nov 19, 7:15 pm, "Adam Boyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I don't think you've really answered Morgan's first question. > > > > > > You're interested in the comments, but what are you trying to achieve > > > with > > > > your blog? > > > > > > What purpose do you hope the comments generated by your blog will > serve? > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 2:00 PM, sayno more <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > 1. I'm interested in the comments, as evidenced - I think - by my > > > responses > > > > > to them. I'd like responses to my blog posts which are not "how do > I do > > > > > this" type questions, which would obviously not be appropriate in a > > > blog > > > > > format, by critical evaluations of a piece of software, and its > design. > > > > > > > 2. I'll be interested to see how many of the gripes have been, or > will > > > be, > > > > > addressed. As you point out, some of these gripes are genuine flaws > of > > > the > > > > > software as it stands right now, and will be useful information for > > > those > > > > > who are considering adopting RedDot for their website. > > > > > > > 3. This sounds quite positive, so we'll all wait and see what the > > > outcome > > > > > is. > > > > > > > 4. I've done just that with a dedicated follow-up post. Thanks. > > > > > > > 2008/11/18 theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > >> Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > > > > >> 1. to clarify what you are trying to achieve with these blog > posts, > > > > >> are you attempting to get some assistance and/or information with > the > > > > >> issues you are describing? I think from the amount of people that > have > > > > >> contributed to this post already that it should be demonstrated > that > > > > >> there are people here looking to help you if you want it. Or from > the > > > > >> sounds of your comment "I cannot see how I could possibly get a > > > > >> positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, > are > > > > >> pretty fundamental" have you made a decision and will not be > > > > >> interested in the comments from people here? If you could let > everyone > > > > >> be aware of your position i think it will help the more passionate > > > > >> people here and hopefully stop this becoming an unproductive flame > war > > > > >> (as these things types of threads tend to become) > > > > > > >> 2. "I would love it if the RedDot engineers took some notice of > these > > > > >> comments." RedDot have taken notice of these comments. The next > > > > >> version of reddot coming out will be addressing your gripe #1 as > the > > > > >> text editor is being replaced. Gripe #2 is being addressed (i > believe > > > > >> around may next year) with a cms frontend rewrite based on > usability > > > > >> fundamentals. Yes these have not been released yet and do not > address > > > > >> your issues "right now" but based on my previous comment other > gripes > > > > >> like the ones you have been mentioned have in the past been > > > > >> progressively acknowledged and addressed - there is hope. > > > > > > >> 3. You asked earlier whether reddot would charge for upgrades, I'm > > > > >> unaware of what region you are from but from ours if you are up to > > > > >> date with your software support and maintenance upgrades are > generally > > > > >> provided under those costs (N.B. this may be different region to > > > > >> region) > > > > > > >> 4. I posted in the comments a reference to this link. If possible > > > > >> could you directly edit your post to refer to this discussion? If > > > > >> people do not view the comments of the post they may miss the > link. > > > > > > >> Cheers, > > > > > > >> - Morgan > > > > > > >> On Nov 19, 1:01 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> > Thanks for the thoughtful comments, "theham". I'll be dealing > with a > > > > >> > lot of what you say later on, but - in the meantime: > > > > > > >> > "all software is frustrating and flawed" - I think this is > either > > > not > > > > >> > the case, or an awful indictment of our craft if it is. I > personally > > > > >> > make regular use of software that is neither flawed nor > frustrating; > > > > >> > as I alluded to earlier, maybe that should be rephrased as "all > > > > >> > complex software is frustrating and flawed". I take the point, > of > > > > >> > course, that RedDot is not the only culprit. > > > > > > >> > "If you can please update your blog post" - you beat me to it - > > > > >> > thanks :) > > > > > > >> > "Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently > negative > > > > >> > experience?" - of course, that would be ideal. I guess I'm > feeling > > > > >> > pessimistic at the moment - I cannot see how I could possibly > get a > > > > >> > positive outcome from this software, given the flaws that, IMO, > are > > > > >> > pretty fundamental. So far, I've just dealt with the text editor > > > > >> > creating invalid markup. As someone who has, over the last > couple of > > > > >> > years, really embraced web standards and clean, semantic markup, > > > this > > > > >> > DOES feel like a MASSIVE deal. However, there are other topics > I'll > > > be > > > > >> > discussing which, I believe, will be more significant to some of > you > > > > >> > (gripe #2 - just posted - probably doesn't fall under this > category, > > > > >> > unfortunately). I'm talking core aspects of the RedDot CMS model > > > which > > > > >> > I consider flawed. I would love it if the RedDot engineers took > some > > > > >> > notice of these comments. I would also love it if an alternative > CMS > > > > >> > (preferably open source) could be suggested, or developed if > there > > > > >> > really is a gap in the market. > > > > > > >> > On Nov 18, 11:19 am, theHam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > Hey [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > > > > >> > > I understand your pain and frustration. I'm a 3 y.o reddoter > with > > > a > > > > >> > > love/hate relationship with the wonderful world of reddot. I > try > > > to > > > > >> > > make sure that my clients never have to experience the hate > and i > > > deep > > > > >> > > down love the challenge. One thing i have noticed is that the > > > biggest > > > > >> > > gripes i have with the product have been resolved > progressively > > > > >> > > through the years. > > > > > > >> > > 1. Complex workaround asp driven navigation has been replaced > by > > > (imo) > > > > >> > > a much flexible approach with navman > > > > >> > > 2. user syncronisation has been significantly improved with > the > > > user > > > > >> > > sync templates > > > > >> > > 3. page definitions which has simplified and sped up the > building > > > out > > > > >> > > of content > > > > > > >> > > A soon to be resolved issue on my gripe list will be the text > > > editor > > > > >> > > which is to be replaced by the telerik asp.net/ajax driven > text > > > > >> editor > > > > >> > > (i heard this month but could be wrong). Though we also have > had > > > > >> > > success with the ephox text editor and will be sad to see it > go. > > > > > > >> > > As a few people mentioned all software is frustrating and > flawed.. > > > a > > > > >> > > good example of this is that reddot will do things > significantly > > > > >> > > better than other product and significantly worse than others. > If > > > > >> > > reddot themselves don't move fast enough to bridge the gap > that is > > > > >> > > where people on this group and consultants can assist. > > > > > > >> > > A couple of things i think a lot of people on this group would > > > > >> > > appreciate if you could do: > > > > > > >> > > 1. If you can please update your blog post with a link to this > > > > >> > > discussion. That way at least people who find blog post via > google > > > can > > > > >> > > come to this post to read an open discussion and maybe even > find > > > some > > > > >> > > solutions to the issues that you have experienced whilst > working > > > on > > > > >> > > reddot. > > > > > > >> > > 2. Why not try and get a positive outcome from your currently > > > negative > > > > >> > > experience? it sounds like your implementation partner is not > > > > >> > > communicating or assisting as best as they can to help > workaround > > > > >> > > these issues. How about changing the blog to a > weekly/fortnightly > > > > >> > > reddot gripe challenge? Post your issues to your blog (if that > is > > > the > > > > >> > > format you prefer) and cross reference it to the group. That > way > > > we > > > > >> > > call all attempt to outdo each other in trying to find the > most > > > > >> > > efficient and/or creative solution possible. I think we'll all > > > learn a > > > > >> > > thing or two as we all try and outdo each other! Through that > > > process > > > > >> > > i hope you will get the assistance you require. > > > > > > >> > > Best of luck with your reddot or all other cms experiences in > the > > > > >> > > future. > > > > > > >> > > - Morgan > > > > > > >> > > On Nov 18, 7:11 pm, Frederic Hemberger > > > > > > >> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> > > > On the last RedDot Usergroup meeting in Frankfurt (Germany), > Mr. > > > > >> > > > Trageser (Head of RedDot support Germany) paid us a visit to > > > talk > > > > >> > > > about the support process. RedDot is aware of the problems > with > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RedDot CMS Users" group. 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