I would not bet my life on anything touched by the Red Sox pitching system.
On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected]>wrote: > He did OK in a couple of spot starts early on -- and I would bet my > life on him being more effective than the No. 5 starter crap we threw > at the wall in September. > > Not saying I want him as part of the rotation heading into the year though. > > Steve O > > On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think that the only reason people really want to see Aceves start is > that > > nobody saw Aceves start. > > I bet it would have been a short honeymoon. > > > > On Sat, Oct 8, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected] > > > > wrote: > >> > >> Yep. Wake was a decent option as an occasional No. 6 (but was > >> overused), Aceves was a capable swingman as the No. 7 (but Tito > >> wouldn't use him), Doubront was ready down in Pawtucket as the No. 8 > >> (but got hurt) .... > >> > >> How about we keep Papelbon and turn Bard back into a starter? > >> > >> Steve O > >> > >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > I dunno. I still think it was reasonable to consider Lester and > Buccholz > >> > as > >> > a one and two in the rotation, with Becket and Lackey as very solid > >> > threes > >> > and fours. And Daisuke is an above average five. > >> > > >> > > >> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> The whole "suck" problem is back to Theo. That was a fragile staff. > >> >> It's > >> >> not as if they did well last year. In fact the pitching cost us the > >> >> post > >> >> season as well. > >> >> > >> >> On Oct 7, 2011, at 12:18 PM, Steve Ouellette < > [email protected]> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > It doesn't make for good copy, but yes, they failed repeatedly, > they > >> >> > had injuries and they had bad luck. > >> >> > > >> >> > Lackey just plain sucks, and did the whole year. Wakefield is old, > >> >> > and > >> >> > sucks, and over the past few years has sucked more the deeper into > >> >> > the > >> >> > season he went. Kyle Weiland has fifth-starter potential, but he's > >> >> > not > >> >> > ready, and he sucked. Andrew Miller was a good gamble, but he > sucked > >> >> > like he has for most of his major league career. Erik Bedard is a > >> >> > capable starter with good stuff, but he missed a large chunk of the > >> >> > season with injury, came back without rehab, hurt himself again, > then > >> >> > came back again down the stretch -- out of desperation, and again > >> >> > with > >> >> > no rehab -- and sucked. > >> >> > > >> >> > All of those guys certainly could have pitched better than they did > >> >> > in > >> >> > September, but they didn't. It was a confluence of suckiness. > >> >> > > >> >> > The loss of Buchholz was huge, taking away an above-average pitcher > >> >> > and replacing him with sub-average ones. What hurt the most down > the > >> >> > stretch is that Lester and Beckett collapsed. That's the part that > we > >> >> > couldn't foresee. I don't have the energy to look up the numbers, > but > >> >> > I don't think that's been the history of Beckett and Lester. But I > >> >> > have a hard time blaming Curt Young's not watching their beer > >> >> > consumption as the problem. > >> >> > > >> >> > Both of those guys missed starts in September with injuries -- > isn't > >> >> > it entirely possible that neither one was at 100 percent, but they > >> >> > rushed back due to the dire situation? > >> >> > > >> >> > I was actually worried about Lester most of the summer. He went on > >> >> > the > >> >> > DL with the strained Lat in July, and when he got back, Tito > >> >> > immediately insisted on riding him hard -- with big pitch counts -- > >> >> > even in games where the Sox had big leads, even when the Sox had a > >> >> > big > >> >> > lead in the standings. He didn't have good command for most of the > >> >> > second half of the season. Yes, if Lester was in NFL-linebacker > >> >> > physical condition, maybe he wouldn't have worn down, but he's > never > >> >> > been in that kind of condition. > >> >> > > >> >> > I think just plain bad pitching was the reason for the epic > collapse. > >> >> > The pressure once the collapse started certainly didn't help, but > >> >> > clubhouse chemistry and beer are just scapegoats. There wasn't a > >> >> > single whiff of complaint in either regard on Aug. 31. It wasn't > >> >> > until > >> >> > after the fact that everyone started searching for a narrative to > >> >> > explain things. > >> >> > > >> >> > Anyway, glad to see both the Rays and Yanks done. > >> >> > > >> >> > Steve O > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> Steve, what is your reason for the epic collapse? They tried their > >> >> >> best > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> just failed...repeatedly? Just bad luck? > >> >> >> Yes, the team lost because they didn't play well. But there might > be > >> >> >> things > >> >> >> that led to that. > >> >> >> I'm not really buying the beer thing either, but if pitchers > strayed > >> >> >> from > >> >> >> programs that made them successful in the past than that's a very > >> >> >> real > >> >> >> thing, and a problem. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Steve Ouellette > >> >> >> <[email protected]> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> There are a lot of successful fat pitchers. Curt Schilling was > >> >> >>> hefty. > >> >> >>> David Wells was enormously successful in the postseason. They're > >> >> >>> baseball players, not athletes, and the whole beer thing is just > a > >> >> >>> convenient excuse for the epic collapse. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Steve O > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Ray <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >>>> I've come to the conclusion that I agree with Tom. The season > was > >> >> >>>> lost > >> >> >>>> to fat pitchers who couldn't pitch. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> For this I blame the pitching coach who let them get fat. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> I blame Francona for protecting our fatsos in the media and > >> >> >>>> protecting > >> >> >>>> the enabling pitching coach. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Finally I blame Theo for bringing us Dice-K and Lackey, and for > >> >> >>>> letting > >> >> >>>> the pitching staff get fat. I think that the Sox developed a > >> >> >>>> culture > >> >> >>>> of fame > >> >> >>>> with no pressure or expectations. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Pressure won't make you pitch better in a game, but it will keep > >> >> >>>> the > >> >> >>>> beer from your lips and get you to push back from the buffet > >> >> >>>> table. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> -- > >> >> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > >> >> >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> >> >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/redsoxcitizens/-/NkMuGU0mLpMJ. > >> >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to > >> >> >>>> [email protected]. > >> >> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >>>> [email protected]. > >> >> >>>> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> -- > >> >> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > >> >> >>> Groups > >> >> >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >> >>> To post to this group, send email to > >> >> >>> [email protected]. > >> >> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >>> [email protected]. > >> >> >>> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> -- > >> >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> >> Groups > >> >> >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >> >> To post to this group, send email to > >> >> >> [email protected]. > >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> [email protected]. > >> >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> > Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >> > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> > [email protected]. > >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> Groups > >> >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> [email protected]. > >> >> For more options, visit this group at > >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> >> > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups > >> > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > [email protected]. > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Author of Confessions of a Good Mother: The story of an assassin and mom > who > > struggles with life balance issues. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > > -- Author of Confessions of a Good Mother<http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Good-Mother-ebook/dp/B005LSR57W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315785606&sr=8-1>: The story of an assassin and mom who struggles with life balance issues. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en.
