Hi,

I created a bunch of issues in github on what I believe we discussed:

https://github.com/gbxyz/draft-ietf-regext-rdap-referrals/issues

All that said, I am fine with rdap-base-down/up but I think we need
something that can point directly to the resource. If we are saying
that rdap-up/down/top/bottom are that direct pointer, my understanding
was that those relationships are not expected to cross authoritative
boundaries. And I am fine with those relationships staying that way,
but we would need a new one. rdap-base-down/up contain the "rdap-base"
which, as used with other RDAP terminology, means a URL that the
client must process to obtain the full RDAP URL, as opposed to simply
dereferencing the URL.

My apologies if I am confused or have caused confusion.

-andy, no hats

On Fri, Jul 17, 2026 at 2:47 PM Kaveh Ranjbar <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Tom, Andy, Jasdip,
>
> Thank you, all three of you. That was exactly the review I was hoping for, 
> and it has left the draft in a much better place than it started.
>
> To capture where we landed so that -01 reflects it: the server MUST still 
> redirect for transport, so an unchanged client continues to receive the 
> most-specific record with no change on its side; it MAY additionally 
> advertise rdap-base-down on the covering object, so a client that cares can 
> discover the delegation and cross the authority boundary deliberately; and a 
> no_redirects flag lets a client ask for the registry's own record alongside 
> the child's. I will take Jasdip's rdap-base-down / rdap-base-up split, so 
> direction is explicit at the point of use and RFC 9910's rdap-up stays 
> exactly as it is. Scope stays narrow: the holder-run server below the 
> covering allocation, off the bootstrap, and not the in-system RIR and NIR 
> cases, which need none of this.
>
> On where it lives, I have no strong preference and would rather follow the 
> chairs: either a section in the referrals draft, or a small INR-specific 
> document defining rdap-base-down/up and the no-redirect flag. Happy to go 
> whichever way causes least confusion, and glad to pick it up in Vienna.
>
> I will fold all of this into -01 once the submission tool reopens.
>
> All the best,
> Kaveh
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 02:41 AM, Tom Harrison <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Kaveh,
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2026 at 05:29:38PM +0100, Kaveh Ranjbar wrote:
>> > I think one word has been doing too much work in this exchange, and
>> > your LACNIC example is what made it clear to me, so thank you for
>> > it.
>> >
>> > I have not been proposing the relation in place of the redirect. I
>> > have been proposing it on top of one. The registry still redirects
>> > for transport, so an unchanged client asking for the more specific
>> > resource lands on the holder's record exactly as it does today. That
>> > is the whole of your backwards compatibility concern, and I want to
>> > meet it head on: the most specific answer stays reachable with no
>> > client change. rdap-base-down is not the path to that answer, it is
>> > a second, optional thing on the covering object that says a
>> > subordinate service exists and lets a client that cares enumerate
>> > and cross the boundary deliberately. no_redirects is the third
>> > piece, for a client that wants the registry's own record as well as
>> > the child's. Redirect for compatibility, relation for discovery,
>> > flag for the parent. Not one instead of another.
>> >
>> > On registro.br, I read that as the in-system case rather than a
>> > counter to it. registro.br is a registry, and LACNIC redirects to it
>> > because LACNIC has been configured to: the pointer lives in the
>> > system and the bootstrap-plus-redirect chain reaches it. That is
>> > exactly the RIR and NIR situation I agreed needs no new machinery.
>> > The case the draft is scoped to is narrower: a holder running RDAP
>> > for delegations below its own allocation, records the RIR keeps out
>> > of its database by design, on a server no one has configured the RIR
>> > to point at. Where the holder does register that pointer with the
>> > registry, I am happy for the server to redirect, and to say so with
>> > a MUST, which I think is the requirement you asked for earlier. What
>> > the relation adds in that case is only what the bare redirect cannot
>> > give: that a delegation exists at all, and that answering it crossed
>> > out of the registry's own data.
>> >
>> > So I think we are closer than the last few mails suggest. If I write
>> > -01 as "the server MUST still redirect, and MAY additionally
>> > advertise rdap-base-down, with no_redirects available to a client
>> > that wants both records," does that resolve the compatibility
>> > objection for you?
>>
>> Yep, that sounds fine to me, thanks.
>>
>> -Tom

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