Unfortunately, Nate apparently missed the entire point...
At 08:37 PM 12/2/2004, you wrote:
>As Dennis Miller would say... "I don't want to get off on a rant here,
>but..."
oh but you did...
>Tony King - W4ZT wrote:
>
> >
> > Gentlemen, if you can't offer sincere help or an opinion that's
> > relevant or that doesn't reflect negatively on your upbringing, it
> > might be better to leave it alone.
>
>And how exactly is bringing Art's supposedly bad "upbringing" into the
>conversation sincere help or an opinion that's relevant? I call foul on
>your supposed moral high-ground on that one.
I didn't bring anyone's upbringing into the conversation... Art did. If the
shoe fits, wear it. My objection is and was NOT about SERA or SERA's
policy. Rather my objection is to the apparent careless manner that people
go off on others for either not meeting their so called technical standard
or for not living where they consider there is a higher moral standard.
>He didn't exactly say, "Your mother is a hamster and your father smells
>of elderberries," so I'm not sure what you're all up in arms about.
>(With apologies to Monty Python.)
right... hail Monty ;) but he certainly did imply something else now,
didn't he? Joking or not, wrong place, wrong time. What comes next, racial
slurs? Inappropriate in any public forum (and private as far as I am
concerned).
>Just so we know where you stand on the issue: I notice that your
>callsign is a 4-land call -- do you have an un-toned repeater in SERA
>territory? (Just wondering if you have a dog in this fight.) I'm just
>curious.
Curiosity killed the cat... but just to satisfy yours and perhaps others, I
have two coordinated repeaters in SERA territory, both with tone. Again, my
comments had nothing to do with SERA's policy. There are reasons to have
tone and reasons not to have tone and that wasn't my discussion at all.
Re-read my post.
>Art's opinion is correct in a lot of people's eyes -- CTCSS, a 1970's
>technology that's well-proven and works -- shouldn't be so hard to get
>hams to use 30 years after it was in fairly wide use in the commercial
>world. And older hams *are* typically the people too lazy to implement
>it, for all their talk of "I remember when I built my own radio, walking
>uphill in the snow, both ways."
That was another un-necessary slam at "older hams" by you. Begging your
pardon sir, but you've crossed the line yourself! One day you will be
old... when you are, you may look back on the days when you were young and
technology was different. Your day will come.
>His comments about "old farts" is probably technically accurate. A
>large percentage of older hams (too large) will invite you over for an
>"807" and talk mighty talk about "the old days of radio" but they won't
>take ten minutes to solder a $30 tone board into their old [insert old
>2m rig here]. And they're uneducated and lazy about learning the real
>issues surrounding the operation of a modern repeater at a high-RF site.
"Uneducated and lazy..." what hole have you lived in and for how long? Look
around you at the real intelligent people on this list and others... They
are here sharing their knowledge with folks like you and you say things
like that. Insults will get you no where.
>For this behaviour, it's approprate they get a few public raspberries.
>Using the endearing term, "Old Fart" works.
And you're better than they? Like I said, I couldn't care less how old you
are or anyone else is. It has nothing to do with that. Technically, I'm an
old fart too... licensed for 40 years. How old are you? Oops, I said I
didn't care didn't I? ;)
>"How do you convince people to use this OLD technology if even the
>coordination powers that be back off from forcing the issue?" Maybe
>that's how he could have phrased it for a lively discussion.
>
>We all know this is a problem facing many of us in densely populated
>areas -- this is Repeater-Builder, for goodness sakes. We've all seen
>it. Art was just frustrated with the mentality and voiced it. Many
>people are.
I didn't know that "(might have something to do with cousins marrying
cousins)" was the issue. If that is your idea of Southern mentality then
you've lived under the wrong mushroom.
>I found the information he provided useful in that I didn't know SERA
>was talking about making a change in their policy, and I didn't think
>SERA would back down on that one if they were seriously considering it.
>That's unfortunate if they did. They're a big powerful organization and
>can use that power for good or evil or nothing. In this case, it sounds
>like they might have opted for the third option. Because they're so
>large, a lot of other coordinating bodies follow suit on issues like
>this one. Perhaps that was the unwritten frustration in Art's message.
>I don't know.
>
>I'm NOT saying that it was for the reasons that Art surmises though...
>that's his OPINION.
>
>Art's joking comments about marrying cousins is an old enough joke my
>grandfather at age 87 knows about it, so I wouldn't take it too literally.
>
>Requiring everyone to be politically correct and the associated
>groupthink is double-plus bad. (With apologies to Orwell.) Don't worry
>Art, having a personal opinion about something and being allowed to
>discuss it will come back into vogue someday, hopefully.
Open discussion without slanderous remarks are always a good thing.
>Requiring CTCSS on the other hand, is good practice. Colorado has
>required it now for all new coordinations for quite some time now.
>There's no restriction on whether or not you can turn it off if you feel
>like it, but you're required to have it available on your system. If
>you experience interference that using your CTCSS access can clear up,
>and complain -- well, then it's "shame on you". And there's at least a
>recourse for the coordination folks to point at the rules and say,
>"You're choosing to operate outside your coordination." That's smart.
>
>Waiting for people to do it on their own is dumb, because it makes the
>coordination body have to work extra hard when they complain about
>co-channel and adjacent-channel interference, or worse -- have problems
>with mixing at sites with multiple transmitters and haven't bothered to
>learn enough about mixing to deal with the problem themselves.
>
>
>Nate WY0X
Well you've spent your time defending Art's technical opinion which is
admirable but wasn't the topic. If it were, I'd support it to a point
myself. If you'd been reading the list you'd already know about SERA's
position. Next time before you rant, re-read the post you are going to
rant about. It's not about the technical opinion rather the method they
choose to deliver a rather tasteless (and useless) message. If you are
really concerned about who married who, and if you (and anyone else) are
convinced that folks in SERA territory are all cousins, then that is your
own tragic mistake. Perhaps it's time for you to grow up a little (or a lot).
73, Tony W4ZT
Qualified "Old Fart"
Licensed for 40 years
Extra Class since 1967
ARRL Life member for 30 years
ARES District Emergency Coordinator - Metro Atlanta, GA
ARES Emergency Coordinator - South Fulton County, GA
W4ZT/R = 146.625 (100 Hz) previously WR4APT and on the air since 1975
W4ZT/R - 442.125 (100 Hz)
Heart Transplant Recipient - September 1991
Take a walk in my shoes
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