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1999: All Nippon Airways Flight 61 And I've already cited historical facts about Zionist terrorists, pre-Israel. Hotel bombings are not 'people defending themselves'. This discussion is clearly pointless. Israel can do no wrong and all Muslims where dynamite vests. Fine. Enjoy your reality. It isn't mine. _____ From: donnella whitacre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [RHETORIC] Islamic Absolutism tell me then when was the last plane hijacted by any one but a islamic terrorist? show we lie about who killed 30,000 people in the sudan and sells christian children into slavery? this is not just happening in the middle east. are all the people trying to protect themselves from this, terrorists also? then we all must be terrorists in some way. there is a difference between the police and the person doing thing that are illegal. you can't call the police a terrorist for trying to stop these acts. and i still have no answer to my question,which country in protecting its self from terrorism has made civilian casualties a minimum? it doesn't reflect on on islam unless you can't have these things pointed out. every one says israel is sensitive to criticism? "G. Waleed Kavalec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And you help them slander Islam by buying into and perpetuating the Islamic Terrorist label. Look back at our other threads. I dont call Judaism a source of terrorism because of Zionist excesses then or Israeli atrocities today. I recognize the difference between a faith and those who use it as a banner. You want the cycle of violence to end then you need to do your part. _____ From: donnella whitacre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:44 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] Islamic Absolutism what is that point of that? the children are dead, islamic terrorists the world over are doing this, not just in israel. could we not just admit this is happening and make these people responsible for their religious excesses? the christians had the crusades the inquisition, most religions have gone thru very dark periods, then they grow out of it. but if you continue to make excuses for this, it will just go on. france admits and britian admits it is afraid of the growing unrest amoung the muslim fanatics in their own countries. i read a small article about those nice young men who held up in the bethlehem church who instead of going to jail were they belonged, were sent to tunis, and italy and france. isreal has said point blank they can't come back, but those eager little countries who took them are nervous and want to get rid of them as they are sturing things up there. enjoy, you asked for it. so they just sell others down the river to save themselves. but chamberlain learned what that got you. finally they come for you. there are clerics and leaders who are working to correct this, who know what real islam means to them, peace and co existence. they need our support and comfort to raise voices against this bad thing happening . "G. Waleed Kavalec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| * they are being killed by lslamic militants. they gave several stories of people , one a man whose children were killed point blank because he sold alcohol in his store. * And by my faith those killers best stock up on marshmallows when they near death. We go through this same semantic nonsense over and over. Just because some nutcases claim to be the Islamic This or the Jihad of That doesn't alter the actual message of Islam. These creatures are working for the avowed enemy of all mankind, and that one is mentioned in all of our scriptures so you know who I mean. * i sure hope our country can keep from being over ridden by any one who wants a coutnry run by religion. we have a seperation of state and religions for a good reason. A "Jewish" homeland? You expect us to buy into that? This has been the same double-think for fifty years. _____ From: donnella whitacre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] Islamic Absolutism that is why all the muslim states are so repressive and can't allow people of other religions to exist. just this morning in the paper,"Iraqi christians are leaving by the thousands in fear of a state run by lslamic law." they are being killed by lslamic militants. they gave several stories of people , one a man whose children were killed point blank because he sold alcohol in his store. one a woman who's beauty parlor was burned to the ground because she refused to close it. that is why their women are so repressed, sorry no truth there. there is not one arab state in the middle east that allows other religions to exist with in its boarders. there is lslamic militancy every were, not just the middle east. phillipines, sudan, morocco, etc. i sure hope our country can keep from being over ridden by any one who wants a coutnry run by religion. we have a seperation of state and religions for a good reason. practice at home , but don't try and force others to it. "G. Waleed Kavalec" wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 1. Live by the principles of Islam and you will live better. (Not just in the afterlife, HERE too.) 2. We start by ruling ourselves by the tenets of Islam, building the "state" on those principles follows naturally. We CAN co-exist with other systems; look up the Covenant of Medina. 3. I criticize the orthodox schools of Islam long and loud, all the time, on some very public forums. (google in group soc.religion.islam) I live in Richmond, TX and am easy to find. "They" haven't come around yet. (Now if you are talking about today's "Islamic" nations, don't get me started... they ain't no such thing.) 4. Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world? BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH. Thanks for the straight line ;-) Peace G. Waleed Kavalec -----Original Message----- From: Defending the Truth discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SHIN Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [RHETORIC] Islamic Absolutism |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Dear Friends, I have some questions which I would like explained for a better understanding of Islam because on the internet we hear several differing views and I'm certain many here would like a better understanding of the fastest growing religion in the world. Questions (1) I constantly hear that Islam is a way of life and not just a religion. Can someone here explain the meaning of that statement and how correct is it to say Islam is more than just a religion? (2) Islam isn't like Christianity or Judaism where there is a division of church and state. There is no such thing in Islam. While no central authority since the Caliph ruled all of Islam, there are several devisions within Islam based (A) interpretation and (B) the prophet Muhammad's linage. A division of church and state is pretty much accepted practice in the West. Why can't Islam coexist with secular institutions completely separate from sectarian institutions? Where they do, there is growing discord and many Muslims tell me that these institutions are unnatural and imposed on them. Does anything in Islam specifically mandate against secular dominance? (3) Muslims don't criticize Islam unless they want to go into hiding but anybody can criticize Christianity or Judaism and feel perfectly safe about it. Why won't Islam tolerate dissent, like that which we have in Judaism and in Christianity? (4) Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world? I would like to hear various interpretation and explanations of these questions - preferably with citations from credible sources. 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