>...it's clearly an abuse and probably illegal... >So just use the algorithm... and let them sue...
>> ...or better, publish the parameters (hint, hint) >That's an excellent idea! I will forward it to Dr. Hofmann. OK, I tried to keep this amusing, but this is getting serious. I am not in any way connected with either Crystal Impact or the Cambridge Crystallographic Data Centre CCDC, but I am responsible for this mailing list. I am all in favour of a serious debate on this question, but now we have one commercial company criticising another without hearing from the other side. And responsible people advocating behaviour that may be illegal. Databases are protected by European law. Their value is not just the isolated structures obtained by individual scientists, which are published for everyone to read, but the relations between these structures and the ability to search for, compare and derive relations between structures. Indeed Dr Putz has said as much. You can argue as you will about the morality of having to pay for using databases. But the law says that a license for either CCDC or Endeavour is an agreement between two consenting parties. If the license says you can use the database/software for some things and not others, and you break that agreement, then you are breaking the law. Just don't use the database/software if you don't agree with the conditions. Use the published literature or free software (and no, that does not mean simply copying individual structures or computer code from other databases/programs :-) The facts as I understand them are: 1) Both Crystal Impact and CCDC are commercial companies who charge a fee for their products. 2) CCDC is also a non-profit organisation that works closely with IUCr and is essential to the international crystallography community. 4) Both Crystal Impact and CCDC sell software to solve structures from powder data; CCDC also have the cost of assembling the data from the literature, while Crystal Impact simply use results obtained from CCDC's data collection. 5) Dr Hofmann has presumably entered into an agreement (contract or license) with CCDC to allow him to use their collection of data for specific scientific purposes, but not I suppose for commercial purposes. He has paid a fee for the right to use this database for that purpose. 6) Crystal Impact have apparently entered an agreement with Dr Hofmann to allow them to use his excellent work for commercial benefit. I do not know if any fee has been proposed, but that would be the usual practice. The correct procedure is for Crystal Impact to contract with CCDC for the use of the database for a mutually agreed fee, such that both companies profit, as well as ordinary scientists like you and me (who are mostly paid salaries, just like the people who work for these companies :-) Even Armel and I have to pay to eat... which reminds me that it is lunchtime again :-) Alan. Alan Hewat, ILL Grenoble, FRANCE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> fax (33) 4.76.20.76.48 (33) 4.76.20.72.13 (.26 Mme Guillermet) http://www.ill.fr/dif/AlanHewat.htm ___________________________________________________________
